This will leave you in tears - or certainly ought to
Nov 25, 2010, 3:47 pm
#46
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Indeed, there is no need to ask for permission to urinate in a lavatory. The little Napoleons in the TSA are free to call for LEOs to try to stop that, but they usually have no power to arrest/detain like a LEO.
Last edited by Randy Petersen; Nov 25, 2010 at 8:44 pm Reason: Remove profanity reference quote
Nov 25, 2010, 4:06 pm
#47
Join Date: Apr 2008
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BTW, my experience has made me extremely sympathetic to anyone who has to live with constant pain on a daily basis. As bad as my experience was, it was nothing compared to what other people have to go through.
Last edited by zitsky; Nov 25, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Nov 25, 2010, 5:13 pm
#48
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 438
Talk about our story, share it and get angry, but don't you dare criticize us. You weren't there.
Last edited by Randy Petersen; Nov 25, 2010 at 8:45 pm Reason: Remove profanity reference quote
Nov 25, 2010, 5:22 pm
#49
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 53
I'm sorry but I don't equate your experience to anything near like LeeAnne's mother's experience. I've been screamed at by a SAT TSO to remove my only item of clothing on my upper body (a light weight top) and to walk through without it, and certainly spoke up for myself. That resulted in being pulled for a secondary screening (at which time the puzzled female TSO told me that her male colleagues at SAT were idiots and let me proceed after a very cursory pat down)
But I would not equate that to what happened here.
But I would not equate that to what happened here.
Nov 25, 2010, 5:24 pm
#50
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I suspect most people just assume the screeners are some level of Federal law enforcement. They are, after all, wearing a badge, sporting what looks very much like a police uniform, performing duties that relate to our nation's security and making no effort whatsoever to do anything to dissuade one from thinking they are very much in authority. And, even for those who do know better, there is still the problem that asking a question or making a fuss or pointing out a medical disability leaves one vulnerable to interacting with an actual law enforcement officer who is a colleague to the same screener that got put out by the question or the fuss or the attempt to give information.
One is also separated from his/her possessions, so there is no ability to contact outside law enforcement or to summon an advocate of any sort. It is a very, very vulnerable situation, and even those who know the screeners are "officers" of Nothing At All are still not likely to be comfortable escalating. Nearly every passenger is under some sort of duress, even if it's nothing more than a flight to catch. There is no one advocating for the passenger at the checkpoint but the passenger himself, and that is a very uncomfortable situation for a lot of people, even if one doesn't have a diaper, a stoma or an artificial hip.
I totally, totally get the unwillingness to react in the moment when these atrocities occur.
One is also separated from his/her possessions, so there is no ability to contact outside law enforcement or to summon an advocate of any sort. It is a very, very vulnerable situation, and even those who know the screeners are "officers" of Nothing At All are still not likely to be comfortable escalating. Nearly every passenger is under some sort of duress, even if it's nothing more than a flight to catch. There is no one advocating for the passenger at the checkpoint but the passenger himself, and that is a very uncomfortable situation for a lot of people, even if one doesn't have a diaper, a stoma or an artificial hip.
I totally, totally get the unwillingness to react in the moment when these atrocities occur.
http://www.eurthisnthat.com/2010/11/...o-wrong-woman/
She was interviewed on the local news tonight - I didn't get her name and so far I can't find it. She basically said that you have to take the shame that has been perpetrated on you and immediately turn it around and give it back to the perp.
I'd love if we could contact her and get a few tips on how to do this with TSO's.
Nov 25, 2010, 5:29 pm
#51
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Then she ran her gloved fingers all along the inside of her diaper, while my mother stood there holding her shirt up, for all the other passengers to see her 73-year-old bare midriff. At this point she regretted not asking for a private room, but it was too late – it was almost over. (Plus I'd told her NOT to ask for a private room, because I didn't want my mother being molested where she couldn't be seen.)
And yes I do care. My best friend died on 9/11 and I miss her more every day!
Apparently airline bookings were down today. I have to think that nobody, upon reading multiple stories like this, would want to put themselves or loved ones through this hell.
It'll be interesting to watch it dawn on the mainstream media that people are beginning to boycott airports.
It'll be interesting to watch it dawn on the mainstream media that people are beginning to boycott airports.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 26, 2010 at 12:02 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Nov 25, 2010, 5:38 pm
#52
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Nov 25, 2010, 5:45 pm
#53
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She had her doctor's notes for both of her medical conditions, but naturally she set off the metal detector, so she was moved over to a roped-off area out in full view of the public. When they walked her over, she begged them to allow her to use the restroom before the pat-down. They refused. She waited there for over 10 minutes before a very large, very scary-looking TSA agent - who looked like she'd spent the first half of her life running with the crips and the second half as a prison guard - came over to pat her down. My mother asked AGAIN if she could use the restroom. The agent refused, and began her molestation. She wanded her entire body, including between her legs, then began the physical rubbing. She ran her hands up my mother's legs, and when she got to her crotch area, she discovered that my mother was slightly damp there. She yanked her hand out and started SCREAMING at her, "DID YOU PISS ON ME? DID YOU PISS ON ME?" My mother started crying, calling out my name in distress.
You know the agent did the right thing in searching first! But she was totally wrong in her comments. Yet, from what I have been reading, there are people on this board who would have peed on her
Nov 25, 2010, 5:50 pm
#54
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I agree that this is pretty horrid, but raise a couple of questions.
Should anyone who says "I am in pain/had recent surgery" be exempt from security procedures?
Should the elderly be similarly exempt? If so, what is the definition of "elderly"? Is it based on actual age or physical appearance?
The trouble is, if you start to give people different treatment based on subjective criteria (as interpreted by your average TSA officer), you will hear the cry "discrimination" in a heartbeat. It seems that you have to treat everyone equally......badly.
Incidentally, I saw a TSA goon checking a family this week in GSO. He checked all the boarding cards and IDs. Then he said to the child (about 5-7 years old I guess) - "What is your name" (fair enough), then "Do you know where you are traveling". I am assuming that this was some sort of well-intentioned child protection/anti-abduction effort but it upset the kiddie and her parents. Is is part of the TSA's mission of just another individual initiative from the power crazy?
Should anyone who says "I am in pain/had recent surgery" be exempt from security procedures?
Should the elderly be similarly exempt? If so, what is the definition of "elderly"? Is it based on actual age or physical appearance?
The trouble is, if you start to give people different treatment based on subjective criteria (as interpreted by your average TSA officer), you will hear the cry "discrimination" in a heartbeat. It seems that you have to treat everyone equally......badly.
Incidentally, I saw a TSA goon checking a family this week in GSO. He checked all the boarding cards and IDs. Then he said to the child (about 5-7 years old I guess) - "What is your name" (fair enough), then "Do you know where you are traveling". I am assuming that this was some sort of well-intentioned child protection/anti-abduction effort but it upset the kiddie and her parents. Is is part of the TSA's mission of just another individual initiative from the power crazy?
Nov 25, 2010, 5:51 pm
#55
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I'm really sorry for your mother. But what if had been a "bad guy" who had gone to the bathroom, removed her gun and hidden it in the bathroom (or given it to a colleague) and then gone back to the pat down.
You know the agent did the right thing in searching first! But she was totally wrong in her comments. Yet, from what I have been reading, there are people on this board who would have peed on her
You know the agent did the right thing in searching first! But she was totally wrong in her comments. Yet, from what I have been reading, there are people on this board who would have peed on her
Originally Posted by TSA: Mission, Vision, and Core Values
- Integrity:
- We are a people of integrity who respect and care for others and protect the information we handle.
- We are a people who conduct ourselves in an honest, trustworthy and ethical manner at all times.
- We are a people who gain strength from the diversity in our cultures.
Nov 25, 2010, 6:11 pm
#57
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 161
For those of you who think you're clever enough or assertive enough to have found a way around the male TSO who blocked LeeAnne's attempts to assist her mother, please share that here. It's all well and good to say that a TSO has no lawful right to detain you, but when one is surrounded by a cordon of TSOs and the only way to break free is to push past them, what's the answer? As soon as the passenger raises a hand to the TSOs, it's the passenger who's going to get arrested for assault. So, if you have a better idea, please share with the rest of us.
Also, if LeeAnne's mother is going to be flying out of Burbank this coming Monday, are there any experienced FTers who might be willing to be on site to assist her if she needs it? I'm actually thinking that if a small group of FTers (and friends) were willing to show up at the same checkpoint at the same time and just create a distraction, that might be enough to keep the TSOs from bothering with LeeAnne's mother. Yes, I realize this is asking a lot, but we all know that unless there's something more interesting to get the TSOs' attention, then LeeAnne's mother will, once again, be fair game.
Nov 25, 2010, 6:11 pm
#58
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I'm really sorry for your mother. But what if had been a "bad guy" who had gone to the bathroom, removed her gun and hidden it in the bathroom (or given it to a colleague) and then gone back to the pat down.
You know the agent did the right thing in searching first! But she was totally wrong in her comments. Yet, from what I have been reading, there are people on this board who would have peed on her
You know the agent did the right thing in searching first! But she was totally wrong in her comments. Yet, from what I have been reading, there are people on this board who would have peed on her
TSA clerks and other airline employees get into the so-called "sterile" area with little or no scrutiny. So what is the probability that one of the 61000 TSA clerks, or one of the 100s of thousands of unscreened airport employees could decide (or be bribed, or threatened, or fooled) to take a weapon airside and hand it off to someone? (Hint: it's already happened at least once.)
Why is TSA unwilling to live with the first risk, but willing to live with the second? It's simply because it's easy to insist on searching passengers, but unpalatable to be so stringent with its own employees and airport staff.
Finally, it is inhuman to expect people to stand in line for 90 minutes or longer without having a bathroom break. Of course many people can manage, but there are some who cannot. There needs to be some arrangement made for simple human physical needs.
Nov 25, 2010, 6:17 pm
#60
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
What happened to compassion and respect? DevilDog posted the TSA Core Values, which obviously are not followed, but how did those people lose their concern for others? Why are we defending their actions?