FFMilesJunkie

Napolitano just described the pat down as a "law enforcement pat down" during a press conference at Trenton's train station. She then said that the pat downs are for those who refuse AIT or walk through metal detector.

Sen Frank Lautenberg is with her and somewhat chided her about the humiliation that people are going through. But he then said that more training should help and did not call for it to stop.

AmericanSecurityTheater

And how long till the pat downs and body scanners end up at that train station?

Don't like it, Don't fly? Right sis?

breny

Keep digging that hole, Nappy.

RosemaryT

That's my point. That IS my point. IT starts with flying and it'll end up on the trains next and on to the buses and before long, we'll be telling people, "Don't like it? Stay home and don't go anywhere."

dvsmith

Another attempt at mission creep.

Despite the hideous uniforms, walkie-talkies and tin-plated badges, TSA employees are not Law Enforcement Officers.

There's a reason that the DHS was specifically denied the ability, in its authorization act, to declare TSOs as Federal LEOs.

breny

Here's the money quote: "Most Americans are not used to a real law enforcement pat-down like that."

Global_Hi_Flyer

Considering that a number of machine vendors are specifically selling their wares to "stop weapons and narcotics", I would not be surprised to learn that Pistole may well have started this practice as a dragnet to find drugs and other substances. But do it in a way that he can call it "administrative search".

FFMilesJunkie

It was unbelievable to hear the lies misinformation she gave during the press conference. The reporters questions were direct and detailed. I missed the end of the conference so not sure what else was said.

Significant point: Called the pat downs "Law Enforcement Pat Downs"

Misinformation: Said that very few passengers receive a pat down. QUOTE "Those who decide they don't want to go through the walk through metal detector or the new AIT machines, uh, there has to be a way to screen them and the way to screen them is the pat down"

She also said that a private pat down is ALWAYS allowed a companion witness.

breny

[the] passenger has a right to go in a private room, always with a companion, with a (sic) inspector of the same gender."

Hmmm, sounds like the people at RDU didn't get that memo.

doober

She also called them "law enforcement pat downs" last week.

I see big trouble brewing because if they are law enforcement pat downs, then probable cause applies and they are out of the realm of administrative pat downs.

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Waiting for one of our TSA employees to come along and say as he did last week that the meant they were "like" law enforcement pat downs.


Maybe Lautenberg is finally listening to his constituents, at least a bit.

pbjag

Nor should we be- unless suspected of a crime.

breny

I agree. I think this statement may come back to bite her.

radiosonde

In using the term "law enforcement patdown," Napolitano is treading on some very thin Supreme Court ice, as "patdown" is a reserved word in a law enforcement context. A patdown is a procedure with a definite scope and specific legal application, which can only be performed by a law enforcement officer in a specific context. Once that scope or context is breached, the LEO is performing a custody search, which has a much more stringent set of requirements.

In Terry v. Ohio, the Supreme Court codified the definition of "patdown" (and, interchangeably, "frisk") in a law enforcement context. A patdown is a cursory search of a person's outer clothing for the purpose of discerning if the person is carrying any weapons which pose an immediate threat to the safety of the officer. A police officer must have, prior to the patdown, articulable facts at hand to support the reasonable suspicion that the person is armed -- in other words, it can't be simply a hunch or "fishing expedition."

Additionally, the scope of a patdown is specifically circumscribed. As there are all sorts of caveats, I'll point out that I am not a lawyer for the purposes of this post, but generally speaking, the patdown must be cursory in nature, it must be confined strictly to the outer clothing of the person being patted down, and there must be no opening of packages or wallets, entry into pockets, probing of clothes or hair with the fingers, moving or removing of clothing to expose the body or inner clothing, and no "let's just take a peek inside your waistband". Anything beyond that becomes a custodial search, which is impermissible unless the person so searched has been taken into custody -- ie, arrested. Any LEO who performed a custodial search without formally arresting the person so searched (which carries with it a much higher bar of "grounds for arrest") would be acting outside the scope of settled law, and would be a great target for a civil rights lawsuit.

In other words, Napolitano is completely incorrect in describing the current search process as a "law enforcement patdown." Her agents are performing the equivalent of custodial searches without benefit of law enforcement rules regulating same.

doober

Another thought on Nappy in Trenton: did she show up there because of the legislation being proposed in NJ opposing screening procedures?

radiosonde

Additionally, here a solid article that critiques the TSA's use of the term "patdown" as contrasted with what they're really doing (a custodial search, minus the cavity search).

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...-mistake/full/