skymaster

Re:Electronic devices on board aircraft

While I personally have never been convinced that the use of cellular telephones, computers on WiFi, or Kindles do actually create a hazard to aircraft radio and navigation equipment, good frequent flyer that I am, I routinely follow all of the instructions regarding shutting down these devices during take off and landing, and then using them properly above 10,000 feet. Nevertheless, during my twice weekly flights, in both the front and economy cabins, I observe a very high percentage of fellow passengers flagrantly disregarding these admonishments. When asked to shut off their phones, those that don't stop talking, frequently merely close the flip cover. The phone is, or course, still active, receiving signals and sending out its location looking for a tower. In spite of being told, "Turn off everything that has a power switch", readers on Kindles keep reading through taxi, take-off, approach and landing. Once aloft, most computer operators don't turn off their enabled WiFi, and people are playing games on cell phones that don't have an "airplane mode".

So my first question must be, is or is it not a fact that this behavior is potentially hazardous?

If it isn't, why don't we stop asking the passengers to participate in what is clearly a meaningless charade?

But if it is truly hazardous, then why aren't the flight attendants more alert and observant, and why aren't the announcements stronger. (I would even bet that Radio Shack has a device that detects radio frequency signals that FAs could use as they walked down the aisle. But even without such a device they should not seem oblivious to inappropriate, illegal and obvious device usage).

And, finally, if it is hazardous to my safety, What should I, a passenger, do when the person sitting alongside me or across the aisle is failing to heed the rule?

sfogate

I have a feeling that if I had to spend any time inside a plane listening to 100 different cell phone calls-it would start to get ugly.

Really do you need to constantly be on the phone?

controller1

When I've flown charter aircraft for business the pilots tell me they could care less if you have your cell phone/pda on. They say they do not interfere.

skymaster

You seem to have missed the point of my posting. I do not wish to use my phone, just my laptop (although I would like to be on line). I asked if the usage by people around me is hazardous, and if it is, why aren't the rules more strictly enforced, and if not, why do we have the rule.

gj83

The phones don't work over a certain altitude anyway.

It's funny that you bring this up. Just recently US Airways put Wifi on their A321s. I was on one and next to a lady watching movies on her netbook at cruise altitude with a USB drive in it. The FA came up to her and asked "Flash drive or internet". The lady replied flash drive. The FA said I was wondering if my Sprint card would work up here.

I wanted to say something about how cell phones can't get signal that high, but didn't want to have to explain how I know.

sfogate

You will soon be able to be online while flying with CO. Somewhere there is a thread about us testing two companies for online connections while flying.

Not a aerospace engineer so I can't answer the question you posed about the danger of using one's cell phone while flying.

I just know that as a traveling passenger I really don't want to see everyone being able to chat. It's noisy enough already without adding cell phones to the mix of sounds you hear.

Beerspitnight

It will hazardous for the person talking on the phone inflight. If I have to listen to you gab away needlessly on a cell phone for hours on end I will be forced to rip the phone away from your head and the end the call for you. This might make you upset, which might lead to a physical altercation, which will undoubtedly leave you injured.
Either that or I will be compelled to turn my head in your direction and proceed to speak much louder than you - resulting in you being unable to hear any of the useless dribble that being injected into your ear via your phone.

In all seriousness, there is no need for you to talk on your phone on the flight. You are not that important. I do expect a reasonable level of "peacefulness" on a flight and your gabbing away will ruin that.

lindaiah

A friend of mine is a former pilot for a major airline. He told me once that cell phones do not interfere with navigation equipment, etc., but that the govt requirements to clear all the different types were so restrictive and 'labor intensive' (not his words -- I've forgotten how he actually described it) that it isn't worth it to the airlines to go through the hassle of clearing every kind of phone/signal/etc. and it's easier to ban their use entirely. He explained it much better than I just did, but it basically boiled down to -- no, they don't really interfere with anything. But who wants to listen to those conversations, anyway? You just KNOW those people would be shouting into their phones, given the engine noise and all.... I know I'm not interested in hearing what I'm sure they think are fascinating conversations.

mbru

Sitting next to a young Flight Attendant a few weeks ago who continued to use her phone/PDA during taxi and takeoff. I looked over and said "I'm glad to see that they have changed that rule". She promptly put it away.

What's sad, is that the FA working the flight walked by twice without saying anything to her before takeoff.

I happened to be talking to the working FA while we were leaving and asked if she had seen the seated FA using the PDA and she said yes but didn't want to make a scene with a coworker.

Professional Courtesy I guess.

icydog

I understand exactly what you're saying about intrusive conversations in a very small space but if phones that have wi-fi could access that feature I'd be a happy camper. I could listen to my iPhone's iPod while texting or cleaning up my emails. Now that's the way to fly!

Steph3n

I forgot to turn my blackberry off over mexico, it had 4 bars steady EVDO CDMA signal at full altitude cruise, way better than over the US

no it doesn't interfere, that is why airlines like EK allow in flight calls(on your own phone) and charge for them!

Henwurst

As far as I've understood it cell phones and other devices could _theoretically_ interfere with the aircraft's communication system. Nobody has reported that they do pose a problem in practice, but I doubt any major study has been done on it, so the risk cannot be completely excluded and that is the reason for the ban. Well, that and the fact that all items should be stowed away and the passengers should pay attention to the security information.

Lurch

+1

Mackieman

This is the reality of the situation, specifically the last part. I used to work as a member of teams that designed and sold wireless handset devices as well as 3G data devices and accessories. The frequencies these devices operate on are well outside of those used by aircraft systems for communication and navigation. And all wireless handset devices are required to go through two (and usually three) stages of initial device certification to ensure that they have no spurious emissions or other RF issues.

The problem arises in manufacturing variance. Generally speaking it is incredibly difficult to get today's digital handsets to generate signals on the same frequencies aircraft use, but it is possible in theory. This is why we've never seen it reported as a major issue. Earlier handsets and other RF devices did often create interference on adjacent bands that would bleed over into aircraft operation frequencies and things like that, but those cases have grown increasingly rare as technology has evolved over the last couple of years.

You can't use your stuff below 10,000 feet because you should be ready to deal with an emergency during that time. Above that, you are very unlikely to get any usable signal. Because of the way cell phone networks do power control, even if your phone registers a signal, it will fade before you're able to connect. Specific systems have to be employed to give aircraft Internet access from the ground. They use some of the same technology but there are quite a few modifications to make it useful with something moving 550mph. :-:

bajrbajr

I really don't understand why people have such a problem with others using cell phones in confined spaces like on a bus, plane, or in a line at a super market, etc... If the person on the other end of the phone was there, and the two were having a conversation, no one would say boo... but if it is a cell phone conversation everyone flips-out and thinks it's rude. Why? Because they can't hear both sides of the conversation and know what they are talking about?