hughc99

What's the chance that the PVD-ORK route gets cut in less than a year? It looks like it's only bookable through the end of October right now.

I was originally scheduled to fly to ORK over the holidays, but WX cut all their ORK service from LCY after only a few months and it was easier to just cancel the trip rather than try to rebook it on EI.

irishguy28

All of today's route announcements - from ORK/SNN/EDI/BFS/DUB to PVD/BDL/SWF are only bookable up until the end of October.

But - who knows? I think the routes would have been more attractive if they were to larger airports in the US, but if we have learned anything from the growth of the LCCs over the past 2 decades, it is that they often grow markets where no-body previously would have believed there would ever be demand.

paulieccc

Cork has been crying out for Trans-Atlantic flights for decades, this is their first. Previously it meant a 3hr car/bus journey to Dublin airport before hopping on 7hr flights across the water.
I reckon it'll be the most popular of the new routes announced today as long as there's reasonable transport links from PVD > Boston/NYC.

irishguy28

According to the Irish Times, at least one of the airport bosses hopes/expects that passengers will use these flights to connect onwards...

irishguy28

It all seems a little underwhelming, though.

Although it has been known for some time that it wasn't going to be to BOS directly, the general public isn't probably generally aware of that yet. Nothing against Providence - it's a lovely city - but having continually referred to "Boston, probably to be followed by New York next year", it seems a bit of a let down, or less than what (many will believe) was promised.

Shannon gets service to the same airport, and to "New York" immediately; Dublin (which only began to be mentioned in relation to these fligths in the last few days) gets the lion's share of the flights, including daily service.

It's great that Cork finally will have a direct service to the USA - but this is probably not the route that Cork deserves, or wants. It *could* prove difficult to maintain. But then - if it had been to major airports, then I am sure that the US airline/pilots lobby would have successfully lobbied the new administration to have the permits cancelled.

I also fear that, if this experiment from ORK doesn't work out, that Aer Lingus will lose interest in their stated aim to run A321LR/neos from ORK across the Atlantic.

chalf

I expect that for flights to/from PVD, BDL and SWF, the target is passengers who would otherwise drive to (or from) BOS/JFK and who live between the cities. Particularly consider the cost of parking, travel time to the airport, etc., driving to a nearby airport can be quite appealing (e.g., Southwest successfully opened access to the BOS area by targeting PVD and MHT). I can also anticipate not insignificant business travel demand for the routes, at least to/from EDI and DUB; all three of the US airports are located in areas with significant commercial activity, particularly financial services, IT, pharma and biotech.

irishguy28

It's a shame they never confirmed the ORK-BCN service they announced when first publicly talking about ORK to "Boston and New York"

http://media.norwegian.com/uk/#/pres...celona-1224497

joeninety

I got quite excited at the prospect of Norwegian taking on the United mantle and providing flights from Belfast INT'L to New York, however the reality looks dodgy.

United pulled out partially because of flight loads even though there was a reasonable business demand. However the current Norwegian offering is hardly going to appeal to business as:

(1)what business person wants to arrive at an airport 70 mile from NYC without efficient connections?
(2) A lot of business traveller don't want to go to NYC, they want a guaranteed connection to other destinations?
(3) 3 flights a week to 'nearly NYC' is of no use to business travellers who might have meetings that don't fit the exact 3 days (or have to cut short or extend a stay by a day)
(4) who wants to spend 7.5 hours on a 737 max? Not only is it claustrophobic, but the excellent Norwegian Premium product is not available.
(5) A summer only schedule is covering the time business folks take their holidays!

I hope this venture will be a success, but suspect that the NI assembly is paying over the odds to claim that it has re-established a necessary business link between Belfast and the US. Filling even a 737 with NY tourists outside of the peak summer period will be a challenge. I, for one will be driving the extra 55 minutes to Dublin for pre-clearance and a proper business route. Cost wise, apart from marketing gimmicks, there won't be a lot in it.

hughc99

Well, the teaser rates didn't last long and I got a "this fare is no longer available" error after going through the entire checkout. Very annoying that it doesn't lock it in before then.

In any case I was still able to still get a pretty good fare on PVD-ORK in Jan 2018 and was able to reserve bulkhead seats, which hopefully will make the ride more bearable, as long as the experiment isn't gutted by then.

CPH-Flyer

I had overlooked Dublin on the list, which makes a bit more sense.

But e.g. Cork is a city of 150K people, and the rest is cities of less than half a million, I do think connections will be a role to fill the flights. And seen as a connecting passenger, I am still not convinced of the proposition. Though I am sure price can compensate a lot there for many people.
​​​​

DELLAS

Norwegian Air sells over 5,000 flights after announcing Ireland-US flights

Airline will fly 24 times a week from Dublin, Cork, Belfast and Shannon airports

Norwegian Air International said it sold more than 5,000 flights within hours of announcing services to the US from Irish airports on Thursday.

The airline will fly 24 times a week from Belfast, Cork, Dublin and Shannon to the northeastern US from July to October, when it will cut the frequency of its services for winter.

A spokesman said that it sold more than 5,000 flights within six hours of announcing details of flights from the Republic�s three State-owned airports at 11am on Thursday. �We think that it was our fastest launch sale ever,� he added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...ghts-1.2986414

WorldLux

Same here, but I'm certain that the 737 Max and A320neo series will steer up things on TATL routes as it will become affordable for smaller airlines to offer seasonal TATL flights with aircrafts they fly on continental routes during the rest of the year.

There have been numerous attempts of doing this in widebodies in the past. These routes were usually unviable as the tiny airline had to wet lease an aircraft it could only use on that specific route. This might change with the TATL capacities of the 737Max/A320neo.

I'm not so sure, if Norwegian can achieve satisfying aver load factors. But who knows? It might work out. Especially customers that plan US road trips will not necessarily need to fly into larger airports.

iahphx

As a long time aviation investor and frequent flyer, I think these new routes are doomed to failure but, hey, it's their money and not mine. It didn't stop me from booking some family members to EDI and DUB this summer for the $65 fares from Newburgh. Seemed like a great deal. Now I have to figure out what I've gotten these folks into.

I obviously knew that Newburgh is a terribly inconvenient airport, but I'm sure I can figure out the best transport options (if somebody reads a great analysis of this, please post it here).

I also know there's nothing free on Norwegian. and that in-flight food purchases are very expensive.. Is there any free water? No food isn't much of a problem on the night flight (who needs to eat at 10 pm?), but the return could be dicier. I guess the best strategy is bring an empty water bottle, fill it up after security, and pack a sandwich or snacks if you want them.

The free carry-on baggage allowance looks pretty generous to me -- at least compared to some other low cost airlines. 55x40x23 cm sounds like a pretty normal carry-on rollaboard to me. They also let you bring a "personal item," but it's only 25x33x20 cm. That's pretty small -- even smaller than a small backpack. I'll have to give that one some thought. They say they also have a 10 kg weight limit. That's not great, but probably manageable given the size restrictions. Does anyone know if they actually weigh bags?

I'm assuming you can also layer clothing: having a coat with large pockets would likely help, as would having an expandable suitcase that you could expand after getting off the plane. I'll also recommend compression bags for them: I've used them on airlines like Easyjet with good success.

I've heard that Norwegian tends to be unreliable, and I'd assume their large summer expansion will increase that unreliability. Is their website sufficiently helpful in figuring out likely delays in advance?

Any other helpful tips and hints for flying Norwegian?

Ber2dca

The key element for the ORK route will be fares at least on the Irish side of the Atlantic. Norwegian will have to be consistently cheaper than EI and the American carriers from SNN and DUB. To call Ireland and especially Cork a price-sensitive market is an understatement. It's also a relatively low fare market - sub-500 Euro TATL fares are not that rare so Norwegian may have to do better than the 480 ish fares that I saw once the 69 Euro fares were gone.

I think people are willing to fly to Providence but they might not be willing to do so if it's barely any cheaper than flights to Logan.

adambisi

Pros and Cons of this service for DY/D8

Pros:

They are getting a boatload of incentives of both sides of the Atlantic
Catchment areas of all three airports aren't small.
PVD definitely has the most to offer from its catchment.
Airports aren't overcrowded.
Cheap Parking - I live 85 miles away from PVD but it would be tempting if there was significant savings ($200 and up)
Good for driving based vacations
Good for US originating backpackers and others who just want to get to Europe and jump around with EasyJet, RyanAir, Jet2, and the others.


Cons:
Public Transportation from the US Airports - not the greatest
Competition probably going to price match especially for EI and British Isles-originating traffic
IRROPS could be a debacle
Winter performance of 737 MAX 8 (lower loads may actually help)
Winter loads (shopping outlets nearby PVD may help)
Doesn't BFS already leak to DUB???
Un-savvy travelers getting nailed with baggage fees going nuclear on social media - hasn't hurt WOW or DY's 787 ops too much.
ORK supporters seem to feel a bit betrayed by Norwegian since DUB was added.