safest airline within Indonesia / fly at all?
Mar 25, 2008, 4:14 am
#31
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK/Australia
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My advice would be not to fly any Indonesian Airline.
Even the Indonesian government can't help making up "stories" about their real aviation safety issues (but "this is Indonesia").
Here's an interesting article about Adam Air :
http://news.smh.com.au/pilots-blamed...0325-21es.html.
Can you really believe that the pilots didn't notice a 25,000 ft descent in 75 seconds? The Indonesians have a bad track record in covering up things they don't like, such as the real reasons for the Silk Air 737 crash in 200x. Not to mention the brutal suppression of indigenous peoples in Indonesian "provinces", but that's another matter.
Also, be aware of the recent fatal Garuda 737-400 crash in Surabaya which killed several Australian public servants and journalists, amongst others.
Fly Indonesian very much at your own risk!
Even the Indonesian government can't help making up "stories" about their real aviation safety issues (but "this is Indonesia").
Here's an interesting article about Adam Air :
http://news.smh.com.au/pilots-blamed...0325-21es.html.
Can you really believe that the pilots didn't notice a 25,000 ft descent in 75 seconds? The Indonesians have a bad track record in covering up things they don't like, such as the real reasons for the Silk Air 737 crash in 200x. Not to mention the brutal suppression of indigenous peoples in Indonesian "provinces", but that's another matter.
Also, be aware of the recent fatal Garuda 737-400 crash in Surabaya which killed several Australian public servants and journalists, amongst others.
Fly Indonesian very much at your own risk!
Mar 25, 2008, 5:15 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bali
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Mar 25, 2008, 1:30 pm
#33
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MSP
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Posts: 710
If you don't fly Indonesian Airlines How do you Get Around?
Recently I have been able to avoid Indonesian airlines by staying in one city in Indonesia. On an upcoming trip I will need to go to both Bandung and Jakarta (and perhaps Denpassar). Are there any non-domestic options for these routes short of flying to Singapora or KL and then returning?
Having lived in Indonesia, it seems like the ground transport is way, way riskier
than the air transport, even with a spotty (compared to the West) record of air safety. On my last trip I remember riding in a car to the airport (driven my a 70 year old Indonesian friend of mine) racing at about 90 miles per hour down the highway median... Perhaps the secret is to only go via car at rush hour when cars creep along at about 2 miles per hour... and the risk of sustaining an injury in any crash is about nill.
Having lived in Indonesia, it seems like the ground transport is way, way riskier
than the air transport, even with a spotty (compared to the West) record of air safety. On my last trip I remember riding in a car to the airport (driven my a 70 year old Indonesian friend of mine) racing at about 90 miles per hour down the highway median... Perhaps the secret is to only go via car at rush hour when cars creep along at about 2 miles per hour... and the risk of sustaining an injury in any crash is about nill.
Mar 25, 2008, 5:52 pm
#34
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
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Posts: 1,879
Recently I have been able to avoid Indonesian airlines by staying in one city in Indonesia. On an upcoming trip I will need to go to both Bandung and Jakarta (and perhaps Denpassar). Are there any non-domestic options for these routes short of flying to Singapora or KL and then returning?
Going by road isn't too bad either, with a tollway running all the way from Jakarta to Bandung - only of use if you've got a car or someone to drive you (the buses in general aren't so comfortable - though there's one from Bandung Supermall to Jakarta Airport that was decent).
From Bandung I think there's only Merpati that flies to Denpasar - otherwise it's heading back to Jakarta to get across to Bali.
Mar 25, 2008, 6:56 pm
#35
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bali
Programs: GA Gold, BA Silver, HH Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 221
Recently I have been able to avoid Indonesian airlines by staying in one city in Indonesia. On an upcoming trip I will need to go to both Bandung and Jakarta (and perhaps Denpassar). Are there any non-domestic options for these routes short of flying to Singapora or KL and then returning?
Mar 25, 2008, 8:59 pm
#36
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,424
AirAsia do fly BDO (Bandung) - KUL (Kuala Lumpur LCCT). Note that this is operated by bother AirAsia Indonesia and AirAsia Malaysia. If you have a choice, take the AK (Malaysia) flight as it is on an A320 vs the older 737-300 aircraft that QZ (Indonesia) operate. Also, I'm not 100% sure that you can get a Visa On Arrival at BDO, so fly into CGK if possible.
Flying non-domestically will mean that you need organise another visa if you're travelling on VOAs... Anyway, It may be cheaper for 2 x 7-day visas at $10 each, rather than the 30-day one at $25.
Flying non-domestically will mean that you need organise another visa if you're travelling on VOAs... Anyway, It may be cheaper for 2 x 7-day visas at $10 each, rather than the 30-day one at $25.
Mar 31, 2008, 1:39 pm
#37
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This is an interesting discussion.
For those who've been onboard an airplane during a genuine emergency, I think we take this issue of flight safety more seriously than those who haven't. Being on an airplane when it's out of control or otherwise in dire danger, I think you will beg for the highest levels of airmanship, for the best-maintained equipment operated by those who fully understand how to use it and recover from emergencies in ways outside SOP. You want Capt Hanson as your a/c commander on the redtail, for example...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_106872569
But nothing except actual experience prepares people for being scared this witless, or even ####less, and nobody knows how they'll react until they've been there.
The risk argument can be examined in various ways. Unlike car or other transport, once the door of the a/c is closed, you have absolutely no control over the risk level. You can't demand that the taxi stops and then get out. Buses may crash more frequently per 100,000 pax miles, but I bet their fataility rate per event is a fraction of civil aviation's. I would be quite fearful of boarding an Indonesian a/c at night in marginal weather, flying into a challenging airport. Read the awfulness of the Adam Air 734 event and think about how horrendous the last few moments would have been for those in the cabin. And they lost a basically functional a/c. Compare them, say, with the skill level shown by the UAL811 crew, under much worse conditions.
As spotwelder says, I have also been advised never to fly Indonesian carriers by air industry experts with decades of professional involvement. I take their warnings seriously. It's not for nothing that NW suspended WP affiliation with GA some time ago. On the other hand, it's much easier to make this decision when you only need to get to CGK or DPS, I agree.
For those who've been onboard an airplane during a genuine emergency, I think we take this issue of flight safety more seriously than those who haven't. Being on an airplane when it's out of control or otherwise in dire danger, I think you will beg for the highest levels of airmanship, for the best-maintained equipment operated by those who fully understand how to use it and recover from emergencies in ways outside SOP. You want Capt Hanson as your a/c commander on the redtail, for example...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_106872569
But nothing except actual experience prepares people for being scared this witless, or even ####less, and nobody knows how they'll react until they've been there.
The risk argument can be examined in various ways. Unlike car or other transport, once the door of the a/c is closed, you have absolutely no control over the risk level. You can't demand that the taxi stops and then get out. Buses may crash more frequently per 100,000 pax miles, but I bet their fataility rate per event is a fraction of civil aviation's. I would be quite fearful of boarding an Indonesian a/c at night in marginal weather, flying into a challenging airport. Read the awfulness of the Adam Air 734 event and think about how horrendous the last few moments would have been for those in the cabin. And they lost a basically functional a/c. Compare them, say, with the skill level shown by the UAL811 crew, under much worse conditions.
As spotwelder says, I have also been advised never to fly Indonesian carriers by air industry experts with decades of professional involvement. I take their warnings seriously. It's not for nothing that NW suspended WP affiliation with GA some time ago. On the other hand, it's much easier to make this decision when you only need to get to CGK or DPS, I agree.
Apr 1, 2008, 1:28 am
#38
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Posts: 576
I am arriving into Singapore with 12 days to explore. Most of my potential destinations appear to cost around $300. I am considering Bali, India and Laos. (I have been to Thailand)
If I fly to Bali, Garuda Indonesia has direct flights. I can also fly via Jakarta on either Jetstar/Air Asia or Air Asia with an optional stop over in Jakarta.
Is stopping in Jakarta worthwhile?
Is it relatively safe to return on Air Asia or Garuda Indonesia on Monday if I plan on leaving Singapore the following morning? My United flight leaves at 7am. If I miss the flight due to Air Asia/Garuda Indonesia will UA just book me on a flight the following day?
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If I fly to Bali, Garuda Indonesia has direct flights. I can also fly via Jakarta on either Jetstar/Air Asia or Air Asia with an optional stop over in Jakarta.
Is stopping in Jakarta worthwhile?
Is it relatively safe to return on Air Asia or Garuda Indonesia on Monday if I plan on leaving Singapore the following morning? My United flight leaves at 7am. If I miss the flight due to Air Asia/Garuda Indonesia will UA just book me on a flight the following day?
Explore
Apr 1, 2008, 5:06 am
#39
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK/Australia
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Yes, but it's really not terribly relevant. It doesn't detract from how bad Indonesian airlines really are. And Garuda is supposed to be the best of them.
And Jogja isn't that far from Surabaya. I had the right end of Java in mind when I posted that one.
And Jogja isn't that far from Surabaya. I had the right end of Java in mind when I posted that one.
Apr 2, 2008, 9:49 am
#40
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
Posts: 5,350
So do Singapore Airlines and Valuair (Jetstar).
No. It's not a tourist-friendly and offers little but shock and dismay for the casual visitor. Even changing terminals at CGK is rather painful.
Also, Air Asia does not fly between Singapore and Jakarta, although they do fly from several points in Malaysia. Your LCC options between SIN and CGK are limited to Valuair (good) and Lion Air's on-again, off-again flights (avoid).
I wouldn't worry about it. Garuda is actually reasonably punctual in my experience, and with something like 6 flights a day between SIN and CGK you will get a seat even in the unlikely event that one is cancelled.
That said, whether UA will reaccommodate you if you miss your flight depends on your fare conditions and the phase of the moon, but it's not their problem if you show up late.
I can also fly via Jakarta on either Jetstar/Air Asia or Air Asia with an optional stop over in Jakarta. Is stopping in Jakarta worthwhile?
Also, Air Asia does not fly between Singapore and Jakarta, although they do fly from several points in Malaysia. Your LCC options between SIN and CGK are limited to Valuair (good) and Lion Air's on-again, off-again flights (avoid).
Is it relatively safe to return on Air Asia or Garuda Indonesia on Monday if I plan on leaving Singapore the following morning? My United flight leaves at 7am. If I miss the flight due to Air Asia/Garuda Indonesia will UA just book me on a flight the following day?
That said, whether UA will reaccommodate you if you miss your flight depends on your fare conditions and the phase of the moon, but it's not their problem if you show up late.
Apr 2, 2008, 10:34 am
#41
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Having lived in Indonesia, it seems like the ground transport is way, way riskier than the air transport, even with a spotty (compared to the West) record of air safety. On my last trip I remember riding in a car to the airport (driven my a 70 year old Indonesian friend of mine) racing at about 90 miles per hour down the highway median... Perhaps the secret is to only go via car at rush hour when cars creep along at about 2 miles per hour... and the risk of sustaining an injury in any crash is about nill.
than the air transport, even with a spotty (compared to the West) record of air safety. On my last trip I remember riding in a car to the airport (driven my a 70 year old Indonesian friend of mine) racing at about 90 miles per hour down the highway median... Perhaps the secret is to only go via car at rush hour when cars creep along at about 2 miles per hour... and the risk of sustaining an injury in any crash is about nill.
Apr 2, 2008, 12:38 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: Former UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 576
So do Singapore Airlines and Valuair (Jetstar).
Also, Air Asia does not fly between Singapore and Jakarta, although they do fly from several points in Malaysia. Your LCC options between SIN and CGK are limited to Valuair (good) and Lion Air's on-again, off-again flights (avoid).
I wouldn't worry about it. Garuda is actually reasonably punctual in my experience, and with something like 6 flights a day between SIN and CGK you will get a seat even in the unlikely event that one is cancelled.
Also, Air Asia does not fly between Singapore and Jakarta, although they do fly from several points in Malaysia. Your LCC options between SIN and CGK are limited to Valuair (good) and Lion Air's on-again, off-again flights (avoid).
I wouldn't worry about it. Garuda is actually reasonably punctual in my experience, and with something like 6 flights a day between SIN and CGK you will get a seat even in the unlikely event that one is cancelled.
I would have preferred Jetstar, but the return is sold out. I could fly down on Jetstar and return on Air Asia connecting in CGK (flying into Johor Bahru (JHB)).
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Apr 3, 2008, 7:14 am
#43
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
Posts: 5,350
That would entail flying from DPS to CGK T1, taking a taxi to CGK T2, going through Indonesian exit immigration, flying from DPS to JHB, going through Malaysian immigration, taking a Malaysian taxi to the city center, changing to a Singaporean taxi there, and crossing the Causeway (incl. separate Malaysian and Singaporean immigration/Customs checks) before finally getting to Singapore. Any putative fare savings will probably be chewed up by the taxes and taxis, and this will take way longer than a direct flight.
Apr 5, 2008, 4:49 am
#44
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TSV, Australia
Posts: 2,401
Well I guess if you consider 400km as not far. Also Jogya is in Central Java and Surabaya is in East Java so not really the "right end" either.
Same country maybe?