stevenshev

In spite of the , I just have to chime in and say that there are not enough s in the world to cover my response to that.

It is BEYOND ridiculous. In most US jurisdictions, that would be thrown out as being within the scientifically accepted margin-of-error of the radar.

Often1

But, Australia isn't in the USA. When in Rome....

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Australia has had a lot of flack over this to the extent that all speed camera devices either have to be calibrated before each use (for mobile and hand-held cameras) or otherwise regularly certified for fixed cameras.

If required, police have to produce evidence that a particular camera has been properly calibrated in respect of the fine in question.

Many fixed cameras also have a secondary measuring device, independent of the main one (and also certified) and unless they both return the same reading the fine is not issued.

That, combined with laws which prevent speedometres underestimating speed, mean that if you are doing 106 then you are actually over the speed limit.

The issue of whether a particular speed limit is too slow, or whether the laws are inappropriate is a different matter (one for parliament), but once it comes to determining actual speed that is not so much an issue these days.

BadgerBoi

I'll try to think of a reason why I should give a flying one as to what might happen in the US or any of its "jurisdictions", whatever they might be, or why I should accept its uncited "scientifically accepted margin-of-error".

There are not enough s in the world to cover my response to yet another FTer's attempt to turn a thread about Australia into one about the US.

jpatokal

So is it just my car, or does that mean Oz car speedos are intentionally calibrated to overestimate the speed? My old-school analog speedo needle hovers close to the 120 mark when I drive at 110 km/h according to the GPS.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

The rule is here set out by the RACQ:

http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars...peedo_accuracy

The current rules came into effect in 2007 - your speedo can read higher than your actual speed, but cannot read under.

stevenshev

How about comparing two, Western, first-world countries and the sheer absurdity of the application of the law in one to the slightly more sensical method of application in the other? Defensive much? (Written by an Australian, writing from Sydney, in case you were concerned.)

thadocta

Okay, so you are comparing the law, in one jurisdiction, to the law, in another jurisdiction, and THEN comparing enforcement actions?

Just so we know where we stand.

I will come back and make a post here when I have gone to bed and had a few beers.

Dave

blizzard974

Hello,
I have quite an issue...
I got fined about a year ago in Melbourne, because I was biking (push-bike) without a helmet and lights during the night, although it was on the street I lived and 300m away from my place, and although the agent told me to be careful and will not fine me, a couple days later, I received two 175$ fines by the police of Victoria! I didn't pay because it was unfair and they kept sending me further notices... as far as I know, the fines went up to 600$ and there is a court case... but I left the country for NZ about a year ago now and would like to fly again back to Melbourne for a stopover on my way to Asia. Any idea if those push-bike fines and court notice would be a problem for me to fly to Melbourne/Victoria on a few hours stopover to Asia?
Regards,

26point2orbust

Why would it be "unfair" to fine you when you broke the law?

jpatokal

Another for the "unfair". $350 is a lot cheaper than cracking your head open against the pavement when you're run over by a driver who couldn't see you.

But traffic fines are local affairs, the federal police (and immigration) have better things to do. You'd probably run into problems eg. getting a driver's license in Australia, but you're not going to get arrested at the border.

Also, if you're just transiting Australia on your way somewhere else, you're going to stay in the airside area and will not even going to pass through immigration.

EURAUD

Sorry to thread dig, but your argument is so misguided that I joined this forum just to set a few things straight.

Per capita Australia does not have the lowest road toll. Germany has. Australia has a low population so the overall road toll may seem less than other countries.

The decreasing road toll trend throughout the world is thanks to safer cars. Road toll simply means the number of people dying in motor vehicle accidents and nothing else.

The safest speed to travel down a given road is the speed at which scientifically and statistically the probability of accidents is lowest. This has been scientifically proven to be higher (between 20-40km/h) than most Australian speed limits.

Why does Germany have the lowest road toll? Because there is no speed limit on the Autobahn. Drivers are free to choose their speed and human perception and preservation skills dictate that you are better at doing that and get closer to the safest speed for that particular road and conditions on that day than the government can prescribe through road signs.

The theory says that when you move away from the safest speed (the mean on the bell curve) you increase the chance of an accident occurring. So, slowing down is just as dangerous as speeding up!

Why do towns in Germany have low speed limits? Risk to pedestrians. That's why we have 40 km/h speed limits in Australian school zones. The risk is actually higher of having an accident in a school zone at 40km/h but the chance of killing someone is less if you hit them. It's a trade off.

I was born and raised in Sydney and now live in Europe. Quite frankly I'm less worried about my speed here in Europe, and find that traffic follows a logical flow much more than Australia does. People don't hog the overtaking lane on the freeway as much as Australians do. When it's snowing outside people naturally slow down because the safest speed is now lower.

Back in Sydney I was paranoid about my speed and speed cameras to the point where I wasn't 100% focused on safe driving.

Lastly, to keep this thread on topic, I now have a UK driving licence but I'm an Australian Citizen. I know that the Australian authorities can't do anything to my UK licence, but I'm curious what happens back home if I get a speeding fine and it remains unpaid. Eventually I understand there will be a warrant out for my arrest to pay the fine. Does this mean a criminal record? Or it simply means they will keep chasing me for the money? Will it get written off eventually? I'm just wondering because it's likely I may get a fine at some point if I ever go back, because of the sheer number of speed cameras these days.

bensyd

The most likely outcome is that it is eventually sold to a collection agency to try and recover.

I agree with the rest of your post too. The only drivers worse than Australians are Americans.

SpannerSpinner

You'll find this everywhere. Auto manufacturers always make the speedometer read high to prevent them from being sued when the car driver get a ticket for doing 105 while the speedo says 100.

How much the error is does vary a bit, but 10% is not uncommon on older cars. It also varies due to things like tyre wear, and production tolerances. Every car I've owned in the last 10 years has been fitted with a higher profile tyre than manufacturer recommendation to bring the speedo roughly in line with reality when tyres needed replacing.

iahphx

Yeah, this focus on technology to micro-manage driving speed -- and generate revenue for gov't -- has become quite problematic to me as someone who drives in about 20 different countries each year. When you're unfamiliar with the local laws, it's still pretty easy to determine for yourself what a safe speed limit is. But when there are cameras everywhere, it's difficult to know where the speed traps are, and whether you're going to get a ticket for travelling just a few KMs over a posted speed limit. Indeed, it's sometimes difficult to determine what that speed limit even is, especially when the gov't keeps changing it every few hundred meters (as seems to be the pattern in some Australian cities)! In Europe, I've had a few cars with built-in GPS's that displayed the speed limit for the stretch of road I'm on: I hope this becomes common, as it's quite helpful to a driver in a country with prevalent electronic-speed monitoring. In any event, it certainly makes me a less-safe driver when I'm focused on watching the speed limits instead of focusing on the safely driving the road.

I'm amazed that citizens in democracies put up with this BS (there's no real "freedom" when the gov't is using pervasive electronic means to punish you for trivial "infractions"), but it is what it is. I'm sure some countries will eventually stop the madness; others won't. While I'm overall a big fan of technology, "speed enforcement" is certainly one area where technology is being used for evil.