Is New Zealand different enough from Australia?
Dec 5, 2013, 11:11 am
#31
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Many interesting viewpoints that I have never thought about ^
I agree with Australians being friendlier towards newcomers. I've attended school in 4 different countries and enjoyed my time most attending Australian schools (in Pre-school/Kindy/Year 9/Year 10)-- have found the kids to be nicer and most teachers knew how to bring the curricula to life.
On my next trip Down Under, I plan to spend 1 week in Australia (have friends here) and 1 week in NZ. My main concern is: Aside for Thursdays and Fridays, are there a lot of activities to do after 5:30pm in NZ?
I agree with Australians being friendlier towards newcomers. I've attended school in 4 different countries and enjoyed my time most attending Australian schools (in Pre-school/Kindy/Year 9/Year 10)-- have found the kids to be nicer and most teachers knew how to bring the curricula to life.
On my next trip Down Under, I plan to spend 1 week in Australia (have friends here) and 1 week in NZ. My main concern is: Aside for Thursdays and Fridays, are there a lot of activities to do after 5:30pm in NZ?
Dec 5, 2013, 3:36 pm
#33
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Hmmm, I guess I'm just wrong about Australia. Sorry. 
But, seriously, I think it will be pretty darn obvious to anyone visiting Australia from either the US or the UK that you have way more in common with us than you are different. The "values and views" you talk about are also WAY more similar than different. And the subtle things don't usually make much of a difference: like should a tourist really care that your attitude towards guns is different than in America, and that you tend to be less religious? American tourists may appreciate some of the other little differences, like that Australians tend to be a little friendlier to strangers than Americans, and are sometimes more relaxed (making money is definitely more important to most Americans than it is to Australians, while Australians tend to value their leisure time more than Americans).
But, at the end of day, I think the biggest things American tourists notice are: 1) the country is extremely expensive; 2) it feels like a slightly old-fashioned version of America, which is both good (safer, friendlier) and bad (boring); 3) Australians are not at all like their Hollywood stereotypes; 4) distances between sights are vast, and the sights probably aren't as good as their reputation; 5) speed limits are too low and there are way too many traffic cameras; and 6) until and unless the country gets cheaper and you can better enjoy its offerings, there's no compelling reason to go back.
But, seriously, I think it will be pretty darn obvious to anyone visiting Australia from either the US or the UK that you have way more in common with us than you are different. The "values and views" you talk about are also WAY more similar than different. And the subtle things don't usually make much of a difference: like should a tourist really care that your attitude towards guns is different than in America, and that you tend to be less religious? American tourists may appreciate some of the other little differences, like that Australians tend to be a little friendlier to strangers than Americans, and are sometimes more relaxed (making money is definitely more important to most Americans than it is to Australians, while Australians tend to value their leisure time more than Americans).
But, at the end of day, I think the biggest things American tourists notice are: 1) the country is extremely expensive; 2) it feels like a slightly old-fashioned version of America, which is both good (safer, friendlier) and bad (boring); 3) Australians are not at all like their Hollywood stereotypes; 4) distances between sights are vast, and the sights probably aren't as good as their reputation; 5) speed limits are too low and there are way too many traffic cameras; and 6) until and unless the country gets cheaper and you can better enjoy its offerings, there's no compelling reason to go back.
I don't know what you mean about it been slightly old fashion version of America, we have most of the mod-cons (quite a few US companies unfortunately block us from online services
), and living here does not remotely remind me of the numerous times I've visited the states. (A place I love visiting, and will visit whenever I get the chance)Very few people are quite like their Hollywood stereotypes... If you travel the world expecting the stereotype's to hold true, you are going to be extremely disappointed.
The vast distances is something we take pride in, we always find it funny when we travel to a small country and the locals are complaining that the next town is a long way away, where in reality they are only really taking about an hour down the road.
No arguments about speed limits, there are certainly roads which they could easily and safely be revised upwards. Interestingly enough the NT is looking at bringing back open speed roads, so you drive at the safe speed for the conditions. Doesn't help us down in this corner though
Finally, each to their own. I do believe that you either have an axe to grind or you missed something when you came here last. There are certainly enough foreigners who have come here (time and time again) and had a blast. That said, if you don't want to come back, so be it, the world is an interesting place, all you need to do is open you eye's.
Dec 5, 2013, 3:38 pm
#34
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Want to throw the audience a bone and at least give us a hint of what you mean by "activities"? Theatre? Music? Food? S&M Clubs? School plays? Hobby meetings? Bars? Late night hardware store shopping? Bungee jumping? Cow tipping? Skiing?
Dec 5, 2013, 5:56 pm
#35
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Let me throw it back to you: What did you find was lacking that made it boring?
Dec 5, 2013, 6:10 pm
#36
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A few years back I did a central aus tour and spent the night in a dug out there...
Certainly unique...
Dec 5, 2013, 6:14 pm
#37
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Even going to Uluru, once you've seen it there isn't that much else to do.
Dec 5, 2013, 7:27 pm
#38
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I won't argue about it been expensive, that said early last decade the tables where turned since US$1 = AU$2 the US was an extremely expensive destination for us. Personally I'm loving the fact that for us right now the US is a (relatively) cheap destination.
I don't know what you mean about it been slightly old fashion version of America, we have most of the mod-cons (quite a few US companies unfortunately block us from online services ), and living here does not remotely remind me of the numerous times I've visited the states. (A place I love visiting, and will visit whenever I get the chance)
Very few people are quite like their Hollywood stereotypes... If you travel the world expecting the stereotype's to hold true, you are going to be extremely disappointed.
The vast distances is something we take pride in, we always find it funny when we travel to a small country and the locals are complaining that the next town is a long way away, where in reality they are only really taking about an hour down the road.
No arguments about speed limits, there are certainly roads which they could easily and safely be revised upwards. Interestingly enough the NT is looking at bringing back open speed roads, so you drive at the safe speed for the conditions. Doesn't help us down in this corner though
Finally, each to their own. I do believe that you either have an axe to grind or you missed something when you came here last. There are certainly enough foreigners who have come here (time and time again) and had a blast. That said, if you don't want to come back, so be it, the world is an interesting place, all you need to do is open you eye's.
I don't know what you mean about it been slightly old fashion version of America, we have most of the mod-cons (quite a few US companies unfortunately block us from online services
), and living here does not remotely remind me of the numerous times I've visited the states. (A place I love visiting, and will visit whenever I get the chance)Very few people are quite like their Hollywood stereotypes... If you travel the world expecting the stereotype's to hold true, you are going to be extremely disappointed.
The vast distances is something we take pride in, we always find it funny when we travel to a small country and the locals are complaining that the next town is a long way away, where in reality they are only really taking about an hour down the road.
No arguments about speed limits, there are certainly roads which they could easily and safely be revised upwards. Interestingly enough the NT is looking at bringing back open speed roads, so you drive at the safe speed for the conditions. Doesn't help us down in this corner though
Finally, each to their own. I do believe that you either have an axe to grind or you missed something when you came here last. There are certainly enough foreigners who have come here (time and time again) and had a blast. That said, if you don't want to come back, so be it, the world is an interesting place, all you need to do is open you eye's.
And that's my primary beef with the country as a tourist. If, as you say, the tables were turned -- or at least if costs were comparable -- I would recommend a visit to Australia. I would, of course, warn people of some of the other downsides (like vast distances, hyped attractions) but would certainly recommend the country as a pleasant place to visit. But at current cost, which will definitely impact the enjoyment of your trip, there's just not much compelling about visiting Australia. And, somewhat sadly, it probably means I should avoid overpriced New Zealand now, too.
Dec 5, 2013, 7:35 pm
#39
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But it also demonstrates all the problems of touring Australia. Coming from the south, it's a day's drive to the nearest town, Port Augusta (whose only appeal is as a last stop for supplies). And then it's a day's drive to the next destination, Uluru. Oh, and a room at a mid-scale underground motel (and the charm of the place is staying underground) is about $250. And very, very few people would find more than a day's worth of things to see and do.
And you're right that Uluru (Ayer's Rock) is pretty poorly managed (the Ayer's Rock Resort, the only place to stay, is far from the Rock, soulless and very expensive) and limited in its activities. It would be a modest National Park in the USA, but it's this Totally Fabulous Life Changing Thing in Australia. The average visitor stays only a day and a half -- even though it's many hundred of kilometers from anywhere else. There really isn't any reason to stay longer, even if you could afford it.
Should I go on?
Dec 5, 2013, 7:50 pm
#40
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In the US, you guys get up in the morning, get dressed have breakfast, go to work, stop around midday, have lunch, work until 5ish, go home, have dinner, relax, go to bed, repeat.
This is a cycle which (with some exception) is repeated around the world. I've seen this happening in New Zealand, I also saw this happening in China.
The thing you will find is that people around the world have more in common than they might think. That is not to say that each place does not have some sort of uniqueness about it. Like I said earlier in this thread, even between AU and NZ, two places which are incredibly closely linked, there are differences, and if you can't see that, then I pity you, as you are missing out on what this world has to offer. Sometimes the best way to find out about life outside your own corner of the world is to get to know some locals. Spend some time making friends around the world, and spend some time with your eyes and ears open and whilst still visit the tourist traps, don't make them the sole reason you are there, and you'll soon find out that places which you assume to be the same on the surface can be quite different.
For the record, thanks to doing the above, I have friends spread across the world and there are numerous cities across the world where I don't need to pay for a hotel.
Please do...
Dec 7, 2013, 11:36 am
#41
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Gawd, I love this thread.
By way of background, I am a dual AU/UK national, and spent 2.5 years living in the UK.
I also spent 90 days in the US on an Amtrak Pass, and delighted in taking time to jump off a train in the middle of nowhere (population <2000), finding whatever accommodation I could find, and spending around 24-48 hours there, getting to know the locals, and how they live their lives. It was incredibly rewarding.
I can tell you,Australians are NOTHING like Americans (or the British, or New Zealanders, or Canadians), and none of these are anything like the other. And that is not said in a pejorative way, it is just that we are all different.
If I had restricted myself to just one major city, I would probably have arrived at the same opinion as iahphx, but because I actually took the time to get out there and do something a little bit different, I was actually able to appreciate the differences a lot more, and to appreciate that there is a distinctly American culture, a culture which is hard to recognise if you restrict yourself to larger cities. I was also able to recognise this in the UK, Londoners are very different to people in Stamford (where my uncle and aunt live).
You need to get out of the large cities in order to appreciate this though, and a fly-by-nighter, staying for one night, does not have the opportunity to experience this.
For this reason, getting back on topic, I would say that the seventh state (they call us the West Island, so all is fair) IS different enough to warrant a visit, but do try to get out of the major cities (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch) and into some of the smaller places, and just see what is on offer, you might be pleasantly surprised!
Dave
By way of background, I am a dual AU/UK national, and spent 2.5 years living in the UK.
I also spent 90 days in the US on an Amtrak Pass, and delighted in taking time to jump off a train in the middle of nowhere (population <2000), finding whatever accommodation I could find, and spending around 24-48 hours there, getting to know the locals, and how they live their lives. It was incredibly rewarding.
I can tell you,Australians are NOTHING like Americans (or the British, or New Zealanders, or Canadians), and none of these are anything like the other. And that is not said in a pejorative way, it is just that we are all different.
If I had restricted myself to just one major city, I would probably have arrived at the same opinion as iahphx, but because I actually took the time to get out there and do something a little bit different, I was actually able to appreciate the differences a lot more, and to appreciate that there is a distinctly American culture, a culture which is hard to recognise if you restrict yourself to larger cities. I was also able to recognise this in the UK, Londoners are very different to people in Stamford (where my uncle and aunt live).
You need to get out of the large cities in order to appreciate this though, and a fly-by-nighter, staying for one night, does not have the opportunity to experience this.
For this reason, getting back on topic, I would say that the seventh state (they call us the West Island, so all is fair) IS different enough to warrant a visit, but do try to get out of the major cities (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch) and into some of the smaller places, and just see what is on offer, you might be pleasantly surprised!
Dave
Dec 7, 2013, 1:04 pm
#42
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I can tell you,Australians are NOTHING like Americans (or the British, or New Zealanders, or Canadians), and none of these are anything like the other. And that is not said in a pejorative way, it is just that we are all different.
If I had restricted myself to just one major city, I would probably have arrived at the same opinion as iahphx, but because I actually took the time to get out there and do something a little bit different, I was actually able to appreciate the differences a lot more, and to appreciate that there is a distinctly American culture, a culture which is hard to recognise if you restrict yourself to larger cities. I was also able to recognise this in the UK, Londoners are very different to people in Stamford (where my uncle and aunt live).
You need to get out of the large cities in order to appreciate this though, and a fly-by-nighter, staying for one night, does not have the opportunity to experience this.
If I had restricted myself to just one major city, I would probably have arrived at the same opinion as iahphx, but because I actually took the time to get out there and do something a little bit different, I was actually able to appreciate the differences a lot more, and to appreciate that there is a distinctly American culture, a culture which is hard to recognise if you restrict yourself to larger cities. I was also able to recognise this in the UK, Londoners are very different to people in Stamford (where my uncle and aunt live).
You need to get out of the large cities in order to appreciate this though, and a fly-by-nighter, staying for one night, does not have the opportunity to experience this.
I just spent more than 3 weeks in Australia and travelled thousands of kilometers, from big cities to tiny hamlets. I spokes with hundreds of Australians.
It's funny here because some people say "we're all different" and other folks say "we're mostly the same." I guess the truth is somewhere in between. It obviously isn't very difficult for an American to relate to an Australian or Englishman, even though it's obvious that there are cultural differences between the countries.
But that's not my point. The issue is whether Australia and New Zealand make good vacation choices for Americans now. If the Aussie and Kiwi currencies were valued lower, I'd say sure. Both countries are VERY easy for an American to get around in, which is of course good and bad. "Good" in the sense that it's easy and relaxing; "bad" in the sense that it's familiar. Honestly, when I go abroad, I'm usually looking for something different than what I experience at home. There are certainly things different in Australia than in the US, but they're subtle differences. When I have to pay 2 or 3x to experience those differences, I think there are better places in the world to spend my tourist dollars. Places that are more interesting, and more different. And places that are a heck of a lot cheaper.
Dec 7, 2013, 1:50 pm
#43
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Iahphx:
I agree with your point that Australia and NZ are relatively expensive for us Yanks (esp. Australia). But, I'm not sure I really get your point about how much cultural similarity or difference should factor into the desirability of a vacation destination.
Clearly, everyone's mileage might vary here. At this point in my life, I've traveled in places very similar to the US and very different. I find the places that are "similar" just as interesting--there are always subtle differences to be found, and learning what those are and why they exist is part the point of travel (for me, at least).
Wherever I go--both inside and outside the US, I tend to find and experience things that are different from home. I am much more likely to visit a museum, art gallery or unique attraction when I'm away than I am in my home city.
It is certainly easier for me to spend a day at the beach (or scuba dive) in Florida or the Outer Banks than Hawaii, Mauritius, or Australia--however, the thrill of traveling to far-flung destinations (and using points to get there cheap and in style) is part of the fun of it.
As for "value for my tourist dollar" it really depends on what you want to do and experience. I'm not likely to see a variety of marsupials and other exotic fauna in my backyard. For that, I need to travel to Oz. If I want to clock lions in their natural habitat, then I'm off to Africa. If I want to experience a hangi, then NZ is my best bet --although I suppose I could cheap-out and hit a luau in Hawaii instead ;-)
Point is, it's a pretty provocative statement you've made here--I'm headed back to Australia and NZ this summer (winter) and looking forward to more experiences. However, I'm gonna try to avoid the $25 burgers in Sydney!
I agree with your point that Australia and NZ are relatively expensive for us Yanks (esp. Australia). But, I'm not sure I really get your point about how much cultural similarity or difference should factor into the desirability of a vacation destination.
Clearly, everyone's mileage might vary here. At this point in my life, I've traveled in places very similar to the US and very different. I find the places that are "similar" just as interesting--there are always subtle differences to be found, and learning what those are and why they exist is part the point of travel (for me, at least).
Wherever I go--both inside and outside the US, I tend to find and experience things that are different from home. I am much more likely to visit a museum, art gallery or unique attraction when I'm away than I am in my home city.
It is certainly easier for me to spend a day at the beach (or scuba dive) in Florida or the Outer Banks than Hawaii, Mauritius, or Australia--however, the thrill of traveling to far-flung destinations (and using points to get there cheap and in style) is part of the fun of it.
As for "value for my tourist dollar" it really depends on what you want to do and experience. I'm not likely to see a variety of marsupials and other exotic fauna in my backyard. For that, I need to travel to Oz. If I want to clock lions in their natural habitat, then I'm off to Africa. If I want to experience a hangi, then NZ is my best bet --although I suppose I could cheap-out and hit a luau in Hawaii instead ;-)
Point is, it's a pretty provocative statement you've made here--I'm headed back to Australia and NZ this summer (winter) and looking forward to more experiences. However, I'm gonna try to avoid the $25 burgers in Sydney!
Dec 7, 2013, 2:53 pm
#44
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Meanwhile, while you'll be avoiding the $25 burgers in Sydney (I ate enough $2 "loose change" burgers at McDonalds with the kids to be looking for better burgers when I was in Australia), I'll be in Bali with the thousands of Australians fleeing their own country for a better value vacation.
Indeed, given the current value of the Rupiah, it would be nuts to stay in Australia for vacation if you could get a good airfare to Bali.
Dec 8, 2013, 3:17 am
#45
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