Definitive Guidance on NW upgrades on DL
Jan 5, 2009, 6:38 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: NWA, UA, CO
Posts: 42
Definitive Guidance on NW upgrades on DL
Perhaps this question has been answered elsewhere in the forum - if so, my apologies for not catching it. I just also made a similar post in the DL SkyMiles Forum as well, since perhaps somebody there knows the answer.
Anyway...
I am a NW Platinum Elite member and have recently starting flying DL as the result of the merger. I am interested in finding out, from someone who really knows, how the DL upgrade priorities work as, circumstantially, they appear to be different than what I am used to on NW. I am also interested in finding out whether or not, at this stage, NW Platinum Elites are considered equivalent to DL Platinum Elites on DL when it comes to upgrades or to any other tier-related services or benefits.
The reason I ask is that I have run into a couple of situations when flying DL which can seemingly be explained only by either [a] there are significant differences between DL's upgrade program and NW's, and/or [b] NW Platinums are not, at this stage, being accorded status and privileges equivalent to DL Platinums.
For example, tonight I flew DL 1791 from ATL to Sarasota on a U-class (discounted) ticket. As of yesterday, there were 5 or 6 unclaimed seats in first class, and I was listed for an upgrade. The upgrade didn't clear, so when I arrived at the boarding gate in ATL immediately prior to boarding, I checked the posted upgrade waitlist. At that point, all the first class seats had been filled except for one, and there were still 9 people in queue awaiting upgrades. I was #9 of the 9.
At first blush, that would seem to suggest that there were no Golds or Silvers traveling on discount fares on the flight; otherwise, it would be reasonable to expect to see them on the upgrade list and also reasonable to see them at a lower priority. I do understand that DL places some weight on fare paid, although I don't know exactly how DL handles it. But since this particular MD-88 was nearly full, it seemed statistically impossible that I, as a Platinum, would be dead last on the upgrade list even though I was traveling on a discount fare. After all, with over 100+ passengers on the flight, certainly at least some of them had to be Gold or Silver Medallions flying on some sort of discount fare - and at least some, if not all of them, would have been standing by for an upgrade. I think that's pretty reasonable to assume.
On the few flights I've taken with DL, I seem to be averaging about 50% for upgrades. It's not a big deal in the cosmic scheme of things, since most of my flights on DL are relatively short, but as a person who spends a lot of time on airplanes, it would be nice to know how DL's policies work and to get a feel for why my success rate is so much higher on NW, where I am upgraded on just about every flight. (I'm also a top tier on American, and my success rate for upgrades is also considerably higher on them than on DL.)
The example of tonights ATL-SRQ flight is only one example. I have others that are similar, but one example should be enough to support my question regarding how DL's upgrade policies work and how the addition of NW Platinum Elites into the upgrade mix impacts them.
Interestingly enough - and this may or may not be at all relevant - I find that when I book DL travel thru NW's website (NW allows DL flights to be booked as DL flights, not as NW codeshares, but on NW ticket stock), that when it comes time to check in, I am usually unable to check in using web check-in. The reservation is flagged as 'ineligible.' Then, at the airport, when I enter the DL record locator (not the NW record locator) into the kiosk for check in, the kiosk says that it cannot find a matching e-ticket and sends me to an agent to issue the boarding pass. I spoke to the check-in agent today about this, and she said that she didn't see any problems with the ticket. Yet since I've run into this a number of times now, there seems to be some technical issue of sorts, at least with the ability to check in. Perhaps there is some sort of technical tie-in with the upgrade process for NW Platinums as well. (Improbable, sure, but I thought I'd mention it.)
Any specific info or insights would be most appreciated ... thanks!!
Anyway...
I am a NW Platinum Elite member and have recently starting flying DL as the result of the merger. I am interested in finding out, from someone who really knows, how the DL upgrade priorities work as, circumstantially, they appear to be different than what I am used to on NW. I am also interested in finding out whether or not, at this stage, NW Platinum Elites are considered equivalent to DL Platinum Elites on DL when it comes to upgrades or to any other tier-related services or benefits.
The reason I ask is that I have run into a couple of situations when flying DL which can seemingly be explained only by either [a] there are significant differences between DL's upgrade program and NW's, and/or [b] NW Platinums are not, at this stage, being accorded status and privileges equivalent to DL Platinums.
For example, tonight I flew DL 1791 from ATL to Sarasota on a U-class (discounted) ticket. As of yesterday, there were 5 or 6 unclaimed seats in first class, and I was listed for an upgrade. The upgrade didn't clear, so when I arrived at the boarding gate in ATL immediately prior to boarding, I checked the posted upgrade waitlist. At that point, all the first class seats had been filled except for one, and there were still 9 people in queue awaiting upgrades. I was #9 of the 9.
At first blush, that would seem to suggest that there were no Golds or Silvers traveling on discount fares on the flight; otherwise, it would be reasonable to expect to see them on the upgrade list and also reasonable to see them at a lower priority. I do understand that DL places some weight on fare paid, although I don't know exactly how DL handles it. But since this particular MD-88 was nearly full, it seemed statistically impossible that I, as a Platinum, would be dead last on the upgrade list even though I was traveling on a discount fare. After all, with over 100+ passengers on the flight, certainly at least some of them had to be Gold or Silver Medallions flying on some sort of discount fare - and at least some, if not all of them, would have been standing by for an upgrade. I think that's pretty reasonable to assume.
On the few flights I've taken with DL, I seem to be averaging about 50% for upgrades. It's not a big deal in the cosmic scheme of things, since most of my flights on DL are relatively short, but as a person who spends a lot of time on airplanes, it would be nice to know how DL's policies work and to get a feel for why my success rate is so much higher on NW, where I am upgraded on just about every flight. (I'm also a top tier on American, and my success rate for upgrades is also considerably higher on them than on DL.)
The example of tonights ATL-SRQ flight is only one example. I have others that are similar, but one example should be enough to support my question regarding how DL's upgrade policies work and how the addition of NW Platinum Elites into the upgrade mix impacts them.
Interestingly enough - and this may or may not be at all relevant - I find that when I book DL travel thru NW's website (NW allows DL flights to be booked as DL flights, not as NW codeshares, but on NW ticket stock), that when it comes time to check in, I am usually unable to check in using web check-in. The reservation is flagged as 'ineligible.' Then, at the airport, when I enter the DL record locator (not the NW record locator) into the kiosk for check in, the kiosk says that it cannot find a matching e-ticket and sends me to an agent to issue the boarding pass. I spoke to the check-in agent today about this, and she said that she didn't see any problems with the ticket. Yet since I've run into this a number of times now, there seems to be some technical issue of sorts, at least with the ability to check in. Perhaps there is some sort of technical tie-in with the upgrade process for NW Platinums as well. (Improbable, sure, but I thought I'd mention it.)
Any specific info or insights would be most appreciated ... thanks!!
1) Policy for discounted ticket upgrades: "T" or discounted fares to be only upgraded 24 hours from departure. As per earlier postings, there is some deviation from this although no one can describe why some and not others. Source: 14 year veteran with Delta, 4 years recent experience in SkyMiles/Delta Customer loyalty program
2) Day of departure upgrades: Even if you are the only Platinum waiting for an upgrade, technically Delta has the right, and is committed to selling their upgrades up to 15 minutes before flight time. That means those willing to spend $75, $100 or $150 (depending on length of flight) will get an upgrade before a NW Platinum provided they have the proper fare basis to buy the upgrade. Source: Vanessa Banks, Supervisor DCA, validated by SkyMiles Customer Loyalty program expert in Atlanta
3) Priority List at the Airport: While waiting for an upgrade out of Atlanta their were 25 individuals in front of me for an upgrade. I was 26 out of 26 on the list. I had a colleague on this flight and he informed me he was a SkyMiles Gold Member. Each of us had the same class of ticket, yet his name appeared significantly higher on the list than mine. The same thing happened on my outbound when a SkyMiles Gold member was upgraded 3 days out and I was upgraded with non-revenue passengers (a flight attendant, pilot and pilots wife).
4) On-board Upgrades: If a Platinum waiting for an upgrade is seated in coach and the agent has ceased to upgrade others at the gate, they will seat unaccompanied minors and others before a Platinum. They do this in fairness to others on the list in that if your status on the waitlist is not clear while on board, they will upgrade other non-elites so as to protect the integrity of the prioritization of the waitlist (experience on-board, asked customer service agent why he was upgrading a UM before a Platinum).
Summary:
Yes there is a difference with NW Platinum status. Unlike Northwest, on Delta, NW Platinums with lower class fares are technically to be upgraded last. (not to say it always happens, but it is an acknowledged approach they have disclosed). Delta has the right and vigorously asserts their ability to sell FC seats before giving them away to NW Platinum/premium customers. Gone are the gentler, more customer friendly days of Northwest. Hello to the new Delta computer where it isn't about customer loyalty, it's about following covert rules and computer prompts not visible to the public--sort of like the "enhancements" to the WorldPerks program. Fasten your seatbelts, we are in for one heck of a ride with the "new" Delta.
Remember, you can put pretty paper on a box of trash and give it as a gift, but when you open it, it's still a box of trash.
*Applies to 006 issued tickets. Upgrade policy appears to be different (in advance of flight) on 012 tickets.
Last edited by lovtofly; Jan 5, 2009 at 7:23 am
Jan 5, 2009, 7:13 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
While I really hope that the above statements are exaggerated...
Some of my experiences with DL battlefield upgrades seem to fall in line with what's stated above.
Some of my experiences with DL battlefield upgrades seem to fall in line with what's stated above.
Jan 5, 2009, 8:42 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: NWA, UA, CO
Posts: 42
Sad but true
The statements are true, w/o any embellishment. I did not list the name of the individual in Atlanta who provided this definitive guidance as she was sympathetic, polite and wanted to help. She says unfortunately, she hears the same complaints from SkyMiles(R) Platinum Medallions. I'm afraid it's just the way things are going to be going with the 'new' Delta.
Jan 5, 2009, 8:52 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
The statements are true, w/o any embellishment. I did not list the name of the individual in Atlanta who provided this definitive guidance as she was sympathetic, polite and wanted to help. She says unfortunately, she hears the same complaints from SkyMiles(R) Platinum Medallions. I'm afraid it's just the way things are going to be going with the 'new' Delta.
Jan 5, 2009, 9:18 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
So basically what DL says on their webpage is BS? The page implies it's status level, then class, repeat for the next status level down.
Jan 5, 2009, 9:29 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
Again, I have been upgraded at the window on bargain basement fares booked on DL.COM on DL coded and operated flights. I guess I am an outlier in this case?
Safe Travels.
Safe Travels.
Jan 5, 2009, 9:36 am
#7
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
#3 I believe to have seen first hand, however.
Jan 5, 2009, 9:57 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: NWA, UA, CO
Posts: 42
1) Gate Supervisor DCA
2) Heather xxx, Customer Loyalty Program Representative, ATL
3) Crown Room attendant, DCA
If there is a disparity, and others are being upgraded w/these rules not being followed, then they are stratifying Platinums. There was an adimacy about upgrade policy with this being the "default"/preferred way of handling matters. If you been upgraded outside of this policy, consider yourself lucky. See the original/above comments from another source who experienced the same thing.
Last edited by lovtofly; Jan 10, 2009 at 3:18 am
Jan 5, 2009, 10:40 am
#9
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
Question if you will, but please feel free to contact the individuals who have provided this information:
1) Vanessa Banks, Gate Supervisor DCA
2) Heather xxx, Customer Loyalty Program Representative, ATL
3) Crown Room attendant, DCA
If there is a disparity, and others are being upgraded w/these rules not being followed, then they are stratifying Platinums. There was an adimacy about upgrade policy with this being the "default"/preferred way of handling matters. If you been upgraded outside of this policy, consider yourself lucky. See the original/above comments from another source who experienced the same thing.
1) Vanessa Banks, Gate Supervisor DCA
2) Heather xxx, Customer Loyalty Program Representative, ATL
3) Crown Room attendant, DCA
If there is a disparity, and others are being upgraded w/these rules not being followed, then they are stratifying Platinums. There was an adimacy about upgrade policy with this being the "default"/preferred way of handling matters. If you been upgraded outside of this policy, consider yourself lucky. See the original/above comments from another source who experienced the same thing.
Like I said earlier, I too have seen something to the effect of point #3 in your list, and would be very interested to learn how this could happen (DL GMs and FOs being placed ahead of NW PEs on the BF upgrade list if not flying full fare Y)
Jan 5, 2009, 11:47 am
#10
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
4) On-board Upgrades: If a Platinum waiting for an upgrade is seated in coach and the agent has ceased to upgrade others at the gate, they will seat unaccompanied minors and others before a Platinum. They do this in fairness to others on the list in that if your status on the waitlist is not clear while on board, they will upgrade other non-elites so as to protect the integrity of the prioritization of the waitlist (experience on-board, asked customer service agent why he was upgrading a UM before a Platinum).
Other threads indicate that the Delta policy is that you do not get upgraded after boarding. The upgrade list updates when you board, and your name will disappear from the GIDS list. Some threads report success with waiting until the flight is boarded, then getting the last FC seat even when the poster was not at the top of the original upgrade list.
So this complaint is not unique to NW elites traveling on Delta.
David
Jan 5, 2009, 1:00 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: FLL
Programs: UA 1K, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 824
I disagree with #1 on the list, as I have been upgraded at 3-days out as a DL GM on a "T" fare, as well as 5-days out as a NW Plat on a "T" fare.
Numbers 2 and 3 are related, but it is #3 that is causing the issues. The DL computers are not putting NW Platinums in proper order on the airport upgrade list. It is obviously recongnizing you as an elite (or else it would not put you on the list at all), but after every other DL elite (PM/GM/FO). So if you do not get upgraded prior to airport control, your chance of getting upgraded are about 0%. That is also one possible reason that other can "buy" upgrades ahead of NW Plat.
Numbers 2 and 3 are related, but it is #3 that is causing the issues. The DL computers are not putting NW Platinums in proper order on the airport upgrade list. It is obviously recongnizing you as an elite (or else it would not put you on the list at all), but after every other DL elite (PM/GM/FO). So if you do not get upgraded prior to airport control, your chance of getting upgraded are about 0%. That is also one possible reason that other can "buy" upgrades ahead of NW Plat.
Jan 10, 2009, 3:02 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: NWA, UA, CO
Posts: 42
An Elite representative who works on the Delta transition team and has taken the time to explain the process to me, admitted that there was a stratification of membership. There are certain Platinum members who are not viewed as "valued" Platinums by Delta. Their strategy is to use the tactics listed in this message to frustrate and antagonize what they view as 'junk' frequent fliers.
Those of you getting regular upgrades, on any fare basis, T fares or other discounted tickets, are those that Delta wants to keep. Those of you dealing with the scenario mentioned above, are WorldPerk members that Delta most likely dosen't feel it needs.
Just a heads up so that early in the year you can decide if you want to keep drinking the Kool Aid about Delta wanting to improve service for their "best" customers with 'best' being determined by the status of their WorldPerks account.
Happy flying....
Jan 10, 2009, 6:48 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MHT, CHS
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Dia, Avis Pres Club
Posts: 1,248
I am Pltm on NW and Gold on DL.
There are some computer glitches out there, and sometimes you are 'mis-coded' for your up-grade status.
I have this happen every week on DL #22 on DL ticket stock. However yesterday I had time and the very nice agent in the Crown Room in MSY wanted to get an answer to this since she sees me every Friday.
For what ever reason I was 'coded' lower as a DL Pltmn, than any other class available. But only on that flight the other three on the PNR I was coded correctly and upgraded. Per available seats I would have made it using the DL gold #, but since I had checked in that could not be changed.
Long story short, after calls to various people about the problem, she finally went to the station manager with all of the info and he over-rode the computer.
There are computer problems out there, but I fly about 6-8 DL segments a week, and the only problem I have is on flight #22. And this week was a K -fare and that is below mid range I believe.
SO for now I am blaming the problems on IT and not Management
There are some computer glitches out there, and sometimes you are 'mis-coded' for your up-grade status.
I have this happen every week on DL #22 on DL ticket stock. However yesterday I had time and the very nice agent in the Crown Room in MSY wanted to get an answer to this since she sees me every Friday.
For what ever reason I was 'coded' lower as a DL Pltmn, than any other class available. But only on that flight the other three on the PNR I was coded correctly and upgraded. Per available seats I would have made it using the DL gold #, but since I had checked in that could not be changed.
Long story short, after calls to various people about the problem, she finally went to the station manager with all of the info and he over-rode the computer.
There are computer problems out there, but I fly about 6-8 DL segments a week, and the only problem I have is on flight #22. And this week was a K -fare and that is below mid range I believe.
SO for now I am blaming the problems on IT and not Management
Jan 10, 2009, 8:16 am
#14
Join Date: May 2006
Location: GA
Programs: VA-PLT, QF-GLD, DL-GM, UA-ex1K, AA-exPLT, HH-DM, IHG-PLT, MR-GLD
Posts: 8,242
As a NW Plat - 100% Upgrade success at or near the upgrade window in DL (6/6). And at the airport, all flights had a waitlist for F. (24 people from ATL-MCO!)
My experience is that NW Plat has very high upgrade priority (I was flying on a very discounted ticket, I forget the fare code though).
But I have not had to waitlist at the airport so I don't know about that situation.
My experience is that NW Plat has very high upgrade priority (I was flying on a very discounted ticket, I forget the fare code though).
But I have not had to waitlist at the airport so I don't know about that situation.
Jan 10, 2009, 8:43 am
#15
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
I was rebooked on a DL operated flight due to a misconnect in full Y for the next day. As a NW Plat, I was NOT given an upgrade into F on this full Y reticket, nor would the computer or DL ticket agent at the counter put me on the UG list (despite telling me me she would put me on the UG list). I insisted at the gate and ultimately was listed as #2 of 2 on the list, at full Y as a Plat.
I was amazed I had to insist on this. I ended up getting seat 36C, three rows from the back.
On the positive side, I got to see the tail exit door opened by deadheading/commuting pilots exiting the aircraft who were seated around me (there were at least 10 of them going out the tail door).
I was amazed I had to insist on this. I ended up getting seat 36C, three rows from the back.
On the positive side, I got to see the tail exit door opened by deadheading/commuting pilots exiting the aircraft who were seated around me (there were at least 10 of them going out the tail door).