cestmoi123

Tenants in NYC have the right to a roommate, and there's no legal restriction on partial unit rentals for <30 days. So, nerd would be completely in his rights to rent out a room in his apartment on AirBnB on a day-to-day basis. If we're talking about the whole apartment, then (a) the sublet needs to be for >=30 days, and (b) it needs to be allowed in the lease.

Note, if nerd is a rent-stabilized tenant, then things are a bit different. Rent-stabilized tenants are allowed to sublet (again, for >=30 days), and the landlord can't unreasonably refuse the sublet. That said, sublets can only charge what the tenant is paying plus 10%. If you're getting a roommate in a rent-stabilized apartment (which doesn't require landlord approval), they can only be charged a proportional share of the rent. For example, if your monthly rent is $2000, and you brought in an AirBnB "roommate," you could only charge 2000/2=1000/30 days per month=~$33 per night. Charging more is profiteering, and grounds for lease cancellation.

nerd

I'm confused. We're not talking about subletting, right?

cestmoi123

AirBnB is (not surprisingly) very unwilling to provide really useful data on this. Their reluctance to provide data is good evidence in and of itself that they're hiding something. If AirBnB rentals really were dominated by people renting out their own homes when they're out of town, AirBnB could easily show this. Take the total number of rental nights (i.e. how many nights were actually purchased) in the last six months, and look at the share rented by people who meet the "renting out my own home on occasion" criteria:

1. Host has only one apartment listed with AirBnB.
2. Host has only offered the apartment for rent <50% of the time.

I would bet that the share of rental nights hosted by people who fit this description is a long way from "dominat[ion]."

cestmoi123

If Person A is the tenant in an apartment, and then rents that entire apartment out to Person B (for a night, a week, a month, a year), then Person A is subletting to Person B.

sbm12

Among other research on the topic, http://insideairbnb.com/new-york-city/ has some data.

It is basically a numbers game. There are FAR more "real" hosts than not. But the ones running illegal hotel operations do it far more aggressively and make a lot of money (for themselves and for AirBnB) in the process.

Could be worse, though. In the Singapore building I stayed in last week via an AirBnB booking there was a sign indicating the laws can apparently result in jail time and/or a S$200,000 fine for sublest <6 months.

nerd

Subletting was mentioned in the "Your lease allows it" context, which interpreted as referring to a legal sublet, not the nightly/weekly/illegal AirBnB type.

cestmoi123

I've seen that data, but it doesn't include the specific metrics I was talking about above, because AirBnB hasn't released that data (for pretty obvious reasons). Agreed on your point that a small % of hosts are a large % of AirBnB's business.

cestmoi123

Your original comment was that AirBnB was dominated by tenants renting out their own apartments (i.e. subletting, whether legal or illegal), not landlords. I think the data would show that a huge chunk of AirBnB's business in NYC comes from the owners of apartments illegally renting them out on a short-term basis.

nerd

We don't have the data so can only speculate. I still would guess a large majority are tenants renting out their places. But still, even if it's 4:1 tenants, that is a large number of apartments being taken out of the rental market.

themicah

The tenant/landlord distinction seems kind of meaningless.

And while I'm sure that a majority of unique NYC "hosts" are ordinary people occasionally renting out their primary residence, I'd be willing to bet that the actual number of nights booked on Airbnb into those primary residences are dwarfed by the number of nights booked into apartments that are dedicated full-time (or nearly full-time) to Airbnb, VRBO, and the like.

You need a whole ton of hosts renting out their residences a few weekends a year to catch up to the number of nights booked into just one apartment that is available every night of the year.

nerd

The claim is that AirBnB is reducing the rental housing stock. If that's the case, then a lot of the AirBnB inventory would be from landlords who have taken an apartment out of the rental market and turned it into a full-time AirBnB property.

Out of my Element

And my initial comment in the "hotel suggestions" thread was that I expect that this is the case.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/new-y...23-2016-a.html

nerd

If that was your message it got lost in the "Many AirBnB listings are scams" bit.

erik123

There are about 3.4 million housing units in NYC and a reported 42,000 AirBnB listings = 1.2%. Some 19,000 of these are private room/share (according to AirBnB) so that leaves about 0.7%.

As a portion of these are renters/owners renting out their primary residence the actual number of commercial operators will be only a subset.

So pretty difficult for it to have any significant impact.

sbm12

Or from a "tenant" renting an apartment for the sole purpose of running it as a hotel. Both are happening.

I believe the AirBnB listings are disproportionatly in Manhattan where the total number of housing units is lower. It might not have an impact wholesale across the 5 boroughs or the tri-state region but it absolutely can have a localized impact.

To say nothing of eroding the tax base and other challenges it presents.