Can I claim gas difference, when I mitigated damages?
Apr 21, 2014, 10:55 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
Can I claim gas difference, when I mitigated damages?
Welcome. Your rental car is waiting.
Emerald Club
To Me
Apr 11
We are expecting you today.
We have your reservation confirmed for Apr 11 2014 11:00AM. Your confirmation number is 144507.
No Counter Bypass: Proceed to the rental counter to pick up your vehicle keys.
If your reservation was cancelled or modified within the past 24 hours, your changes are not reflected in this message.
We appreciate your business and look forward to seeing you. Please feel free to contact us with any questions regarding the rental process.
Thank you,
National Car Rental
The above (obviously irrelevant) email hit my mailbox a few hours following a phonecall from my NJ National pick-up location - to apologize that they will NOT have my minivan, as "the entire area" is sold out of minivans. I said: "look. I still have 2 hours before my scheduled pick-up. I actually NEED a vehicle that would take 6+ people to Orlando, our hotels and park tix are all pre-paid. To prevent damages to me and National, I would agree to pick up from any location in NYC area, where you find a minivan for me. The guy did call me back twice that day - again to apologize that he found no minivan for me.
By my scheduled pick-up time, I found a 6-pass Ram350 pick-up at Alamo not far from the original National location. I suffered greatly from having zero luggage space plus 1 less passenger capacity - but that Ram was the only solution to carry at least 6 passengers. Other than huge discomfort, the only actual out-of-pocket damage was the considerable mpg difference over an 1100mi one-way one-day rental. Can I claim gas differential and how? (I've saved all receipts)
Emerald Club
To Me
Apr 11
We are expecting you today.
We have your reservation confirmed for Apr 11 2014 11:00AM. Your confirmation number is 144507.
No Counter Bypass: Proceed to the rental counter to pick up your vehicle keys.
If your reservation was cancelled or modified within the past 24 hours, your changes are not reflected in this message.
We appreciate your business and look forward to seeing you. Please feel free to contact us with any questions regarding the rental process.
Thank you,
National Car Rental
The above (obviously irrelevant) email hit my mailbox a few hours following a phonecall from my NJ National pick-up location - to apologize that they will NOT have my minivan, as "the entire area" is sold out of minivans. I said: "look. I still have 2 hours before my scheduled pick-up. I actually NEED a vehicle that would take 6+ people to Orlando, our hotels and park tix are all pre-paid. To prevent damages to me and National, I would agree to pick up from any location in NYC area, where you find a minivan for me. The guy did call me back twice that day - again to apologize that he found no minivan for me.
By my scheduled pick-up time, I found a 6-pass Ram350 pick-up at Alamo not far from the original National location. I suffered greatly from having zero luggage space plus 1 less passenger capacity - but that Ram was the only solution to carry at least 6 passengers. Other than huge discomfort, the only actual out-of-pocket damage was the considerable mpg difference over an 1100mi one-way one-day rental. Can I claim gas differential and how? (I've saved all receipts)
Apr 22, 2014, 4:50 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York suburbs
Posts: 4,210
Was this a one-way to Orlando, or roundtrip to NJ? If it was a one-way, make sure you have an appropriately sized vehicle in FL. If it is a roundtrip, try to exchange the pickup in Orlando for a minivan. In both cases, I think asking politely for compensation would be a good idea.
Apr 22, 2014, 7:03 am
#3
Moderator: National Car
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SE MI
Programs: Delta PM, National EE, Hertz PC, Hilton DM
Posts: 2,168
Believe it or not, unless you pre-paid the car reservation (which, if you booked on National's site, you did not because that is not the way the business runs), there is no "guarantee" that what you booked will be there due to ever-changing fleet demands. There's a big movement within the AR industry to change that way of doing business (because of the ill will it generates in situations exactly like yours), but that doesn't really help you with the immediate issue.
So you know for next time, here are a few things you can try if this happens again.
First, you could have requested National find you a minivan with a competitor and had them pay for it. Same concept as when an airline cancels your flight and the next one out is on a competing carrier.
Second, you could have requested an "upgrade" to an otherwise appropriate vehicle. A Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Expedition...etc., or any of the crossovers (Traverse, Acadia, Enclave) would have worked for you. I would be very surprised if they did not have a single one of those kicking around somewhere.
Third, you could have changed out the car outside of the NY area. You probably passed 20+ National locations between New Jersey and Florida. Understandably that's a hassle and annoyance, but you did not have to drive the Ram the entire time.
And as a side point, the master agreement prevents you from recovering any damages like these, so, at best, anything they would comp you would be goodwill.
Sounds like an unfortunate situation but you won't get anywhere asking for a gas-difference reimbursement. Especially since you can't actually prove anything with respect to an actual damage; i.e., you could have driven the minivan in such a way as to get similar gas mileage on the highway as you did with the Dodge Ram. If you had a Hemi, driving normally you'd be getting 17-18/ish on the highway, and the Ram V6 is actually in the low 20's (it's rated for 25, but I've never gotten one that high) on the highway. Both of those are within the range of a standard Town and Country's low-20's figure for gas mileage.
So you know for next time, here are a few things you can try if this happens again.
First, you could have requested National find you a minivan with a competitor and had them pay for it. Same concept as when an airline cancels your flight and the next one out is on a competing carrier.
Second, you could have requested an "upgrade" to an otherwise appropriate vehicle. A Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Expedition...etc., or any of the crossovers (Traverse, Acadia, Enclave) would have worked for you. I would be very surprised if they did not have a single one of those kicking around somewhere.
Third, you could have changed out the car outside of the NY area. You probably passed 20+ National locations between New Jersey and Florida. Understandably that's a hassle and annoyance, but you did not have to drive the Ram the entire time.
And as a side point, the master agreement prevents you from recovering any damages like these, so, at best, anything they would comp you would be goodwill.
Sounds like an unfortunate situation but you won't get anywhere asking for a gas-difference reimbursement. Especially since you can't actually prove anything with respect to an actual damage; i.e., you could have driven the minivan in such a way as to get similar gas mileage on the highway as you did with the Dodge Ram. If you had a Hemi, driving normally you'd be getting 17-18/ish on the highway, and the Ram V6 is actually in the low 20's (it's rated for 25, but I've never gotten one that high) on the highway. Both of those are within the range of a standard Town and Country's low-20's figure for gas mileage.
Apr 22, 2014, 7:14 am
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I would focus on the customer dissatisfaction issue here. You can claim anything you want, but you aren't going to get it short of filing and winning -- which you won't -- a lawsuit.
Apr 22, 2014, 11:11 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
Thanks for all replies!
It was 1-way 1-day minivan reservation made weeks in advance NJ->Orlando, using just 10% off Emerald code. I happen to be Executive level.
National website was still allowing to book 4/11 minivans on the night of 4/10, when I modified return location (one Orlando hotel in favor of another). But in the morning (4/11 was last day of schools in NYC, going into spring break), National started calling all booked minivan customers claiming sell-out in the entire area. It never occurred to me to switch vehicle somewhere South of NY/NJ, nor had anyone at National searched anything at all for me. I did reply to caller from my 11am pick-up NJ location (to his apologetic notice call 9am) that I ABSOLUTELY require any vehicle to seat at least 6. Although he called me twice thereafter, it was only to inform me that he's located nothing! In fact, he insisted that he couldn't even make calls to other locations on my behalf - he disclosed he only sent a quick e-mail to EWR = region's largest location
It was 1-way 1-day minivan reservation made weeks in advance NJ->Orlando, using just 10% off Emerald code. I happen to be Executive level.
National website was still allowing to book 4/11 minivans on the night of 4/10, when I modified return location (one Orlando hotel in favor of another). But in the morning (4/11 was last day of schools in NYC, going into spring break), National started calling all booked minivan customers claiming sell-out in the entire area. It never occurred to me to switch vehicle somewhere South of NY/NJ, nor had anyone at National searched anything at all for me. I did reply to caller from my 11am pick-up NJ location (to his apologetic notice call 9am) that I ABSOLUTELY require any vehicle to seat at least 6. Although he called me twice thereafter, it was only to inform me that he's located nothing! In fact, he insisted that he couldn't even make calls to other locations on my behalf - he disclosed he only sent a quick e-mail to EWR = region's largest location
Last edited by SinglePapa2; Apr 23, 2014 at 6:00 am
Apr 22, 2014, 11:48 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York suburbs
Posts: 4,210
National/Alamo/Enterprise often has a follow-up call after the rental is complete, to ask if you were satisfied. If you receive such a call, that may be a golden opportunity to negotiate a discount. Although they might argue that theoretically a pickup truck with a bench seat can fit 6 passengers in the cab and a stack of luggage (vulnerable to the weather and thieves) in the open bed.
Apr 22, 2014, 8:15 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
The Alamo/National NJ location, where I discovered idling pick-up (in fact, two identical pick-ups), serviced me in a way I found unusual. No walk-around, and no damage/fuel-reading paper was issued to me (that pick-up only had a quarter-tank of gas). I came back to show the guy a chip on windshield, which I wanted to receive something on paper about - but the guy said he'd enter it into the system instead, and ignored my request to write the same in the blank comment area of the white contract. That was after he first brushed the chip off outright, saying the chip was already filled from the inside.
Lo'n'behold, I get a call a couple of days after drop-off, asking me about the damage. I told the lady exactly what I just posted in above paragraph. She searched a minute; then she said she "now sees the notation" - and I'm in the clear. Snail mail arrives:
Dear Sir/Madam,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty and your business. We have reviewed your concerns regarding the claim for your rental vehicle; we appreciate you as a customer and have made the decision to take care of the damages and costs of this claim for your satisfaction
Whaaaaaaaat?
Lo'n'behold, I get a call a couple of days after drop-off, asking me about the damage. I told the lady exactly what I just posted in above paragraph. She searched a minute; then she said she "now sees the notation" - and I'm in the clear. Snail mail arrives:
Dear Sir/Madam,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty and your business. We have reviewed your concerns regarding the claim for your rental vehicle; we appreciate you as a customer and have made the decision to take care of the damages and costs of this claim for your satisfaction
Whaaaaaaaat?
Last edited by SinglePapa2; Apr 23, 2014 at 6:10 am
Apr 22, 2014, 8:33 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,717
The Alamo/National NJ location, where I discovered idling pick-up, serviced me a bit strange. No walk-around, and no damage/fuel reading paper. I came back to show the guy a chip on windshield, which I wanted to receive something on paper about - but the guy said he'd enter it into the system instead. And that was after he first brushed it off outright, saying the chip was already filled from the inside.
I did get a call a couple of days after drop-off, asking me about the damage. I told the lady exactly what I just posted in above paragraph. She searched a minute, and then she said she now sees the notation - and I'm good. Snail mail arrives:
Dear Sir/Madam,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty and your business. We have reviewed your concerns regarding the claim for your rental vehicle; we appreciate you as a customer and have made the decision to take care of the damages and costs of this claim for your satisfaction
Whaaaaaaaat?
I did get a call a couple of days after drop-off, asking me about the damage. I told the lady exactly what I just posted in above paragraph. She searched a minute, and then she said she now sees the notation - and I'm good. Snail mail arrives:
Dear Sir/Madam,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty and your business. We have reviewed your concerns regarding the claim for your rental vehicle; we appreciate you as a customer and have made the decision to take care of the damages and costs of this claim for your satisfaction
Whaaaaaaaat?
I reserved a C (so I guess F in the exec world); my loc was sold out and had only 4 vehicles left;
Escape, Sonata, Charger and C300
The c300 was going out on a P rez and the Sonata and charger where high mileage, when I asked about anything else siting fuel costs; they took an extra 10$ off my rez to cover the exces fuel.
I almost felt like I was stealing from them :P
Apr 22, 2014, 9:30 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
I have gas receipts from previous one-way NY-Orlando: National minivan used $40 less gas than this Alamo pick-up truck. What do I do now?
Apr 23, 2014, 7:04 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York suburbs
Posts: 4,210
There is probably nothing you can do about that. No rental company promises a certain fuel efficiency. Even when gas mileage information is provided at the time of reservation for each vehicle category, notice that it's shown as a wide range.
Apr 23, 2014, 8:17 am
#11
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 376
Forget the gas difference. Write to customer service and request a customer service voucher for your hassle.
May 1, 2014, 8:50 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
Despite website's promise of 72-h response, a week's gone by. Any particular email address suggestion?
May 2, 2014, 8:33 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
This is not going the way I need, or is it??
finally, after a week of waiting:
Dear xxxxxx,
Thank you for your e-mail.
My name is Shenell and I will be happy to assist you today. I apologize for the inconvenience of not having the vehicle your requested. I have forward the e-mail to the location. I am sure they will want to hear your feedback. If you need additional assistance please contact me. Your complete satisfaction is my ultimate objective.
Best Regards,
Shenell
E-Mail Customer Care
Customer By Web Form (xxxx xxxxx) 04/24/2014 10:18 AM
I had a minivan booked to take 6 guests one-way from NY to Orlando April 11. All our Orlando hotels and park tickets were pre-paid: over $6,000. I booked mine well in advance; and the website still was booking minivans even immediately prior morning of 4/11. On April 11 an email came:
Emerald Club
To Me
Apr 11
We are expecting you today.
We have your reservation confirmed for Apr 11 2014 11:00AM. Your confirmation number is 14450xxx.
No Counter Bypass: Proceed to the rental counter to pick up your vehicle keys.
If your reservation was cancelled or modified within the past 24 hours, your changes are not reflected in this message.
We appreciate your business and look forward to seeing you. Please feel free to contact us with any questions regarding the rental process.
Thank you,
National Car Rental
This is a system-generated email from a mailbox that does not accept inbound messages. If you have questions, please contact customer service at 1-800-328-1234.
(C) 2013 National Car Rental
600 Corporate Park Drive
St. Louis, MO 63105
Alas, my rental location called me that they don't have my minivan, "as the entire area is sold-out." I informed them that I absolutely do require to carry 6 people NYC to Orlando today, or as much as $6,000 of damages may result. The location called me twice again April 11, only to inform me that they can't do anything at all for me.
At last moment, I managed to find a Ram350 pick-up truck out of a different NYC area Alamo/National location - and so we did get to Orlando next day. But despite using $40 more gas than my previous minivan trip took, this 24-hour drive was extremely uncomfortable for 6 people and luggage. If I had to put a modest number on discomfort, it would be $150.
I hope as an Executive Level member, this incident can be resolved to my satisfaction. Sincerely, xxxxx xxxxxx (212-xxx-xxxx)
© 2013 National Car Rental
[---001:002278:32320---]
Dear xxxxxx,
Thank you for your e-mail.
My name is Shenell and I will be happy to assist you today. I apologize for the inconvenience of not having the vehicle your requested. I have forward the e-mail to the location. I am sure they will want to hear your feedback. If you need additional assistance please contact me. Your complete satisfaction is my ultimate objective.
Best Regards,
Shenell
E-Mail Customer Care
Customer By Web Form (xxxx xxxxx) 04/24/2014 10:18 AM
I had a minivan booked to take 6 guests one-way from NY to Orlando April 11. All our Orlando hotels and park tickets were pre-paid: over $6,000. I booked mine well in advance; and the website still was booking minivans even immediately prior morning of 4/11. On April 11 an email came:
Emerald Club
To Me
Apr 11
We are expecting you today.
We have your reservation confirmed for Apr 11 2014 11:00AM. Your confirmation number is 14450xxx.
No Counter Bypass: Proceed to the rental counter to pick up your vehicle keys.
If your reservation was cancelled or modified within the past 24 hours, your changes are not reflected in this message.
We appreciate your business and look forward to seeing you. Please feel free to contact us with any questions regarding the rental process.
Thank you,
National Car Rental
This is a system-generated email from a mailbox that does not accept inbound messages. If you have questions, please contact customer service at 1-800-328-1234.
(C) 2013 National Car Rental
600 Corporate Park Drive
St. Louis, MO 63105
Alas, my rental location called me that they don't have my minivan, "as the entire area is sold-out." I informed them that I absolutely do require to carry 6 people NYC to Orlando today, or as much as $6,000 of damages may result. The location called me twice again April 11, only to inform me that they can't do anything at all for me.
At last moment, I managed to find a Ram350 pick-up truck out of a different NYC area Alamo/National location - and so we did get to Orlando next day. But despite using $40 more gas than my previous minivan trip took, this 24-hour drive was extremely uncomfortable for 6 people and luggage. If I had to put a modest number on discomfort, it would be $150.
I hope as an Executive Level member, this incident can be resolved to my satisfaction. Sincerely, xxxxx xxxxxx (212-xxx-xxxx)
© 2013 National Car Rental
[---001:002278:32320---]
Last edited by SinglePapa2; May 2, 2014 at 8:43 am
May 3, 2014, 1:26 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
I suffered greatly from having zero luggage space plus 1 less passenger capacity - but that Ram was the only solution to carry at least 6 passengers. Other than huge discomfort, the only actual out-of-pocket damage was the considerable mpg difference over an 1100mi one-way one-day rental. Can I claim gas differential and how? (I've saved all receipts)
I informed them that I absolutely do require to carry 6 people NYC to Orlando today, or as much as $6,000 of damages may result. The location called me twice again April 11, only to inform me that they can't do anything at all for me.
At last moment, I managed to find a Ram350 pick-up truck out of a different NYC area Alamo/National location - and so we did get to Orlando next day. But despite using $40 more gas than my previous minivan trip took, this 24-hour drive was extremely uncomfortable for 6 people and luggage. If I had to put a modest number on discomfort, it would be $150.
At last moment, I managed to find a Ram350 pick-up truck out of a different NYC area Alamo/National location - and so we did get to Orlando next day. But despite using $40 more gas than my previous minivan trip took, this 24-hour drive was extremely uncomfortable for 6 people and luggage. If I had to put a modest number on discomfort, it would be $150.
I would be pretty upset if they didn't have a car I had booked, but it just appears as if you are trying to pull the compensation play for something you aren't entitled to compensation for.
You suffered greatly? How did you quantify your level of discomfort being $150?
I would have suffered greatly driving any car for 16 hours. $150 / 16 hours / 6 people. You are seeking $1.50 per hour per person of compensation for suffering greatly (I assume everybody suffered?). If I suffered greatly I would be asking for a minimum of $100 per hour of suffering, or $9,600 in total.
The numbers you have come up with just makes it sound as if you are upset about what happened and want the rental for free, so I would drop this silly "suffering" defense unless you are prepared to ask for the real cost of suffering (in which case they would just laugh I am sure).
Some things are worth fighting for, some others not. Hopefully you had a great time with your $6,000 vacation to be able to see past what ultimately was an inconvenience at the start of the trip, and not let it ruin the rest of the trip.
May 3, 2014, 5:55 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,663
I don't know WHY you've just written a volume here. To answer the $150 question - yes, that was the price of the rental. I didn't come up with thousands for discomfort, I just said a modest number would be $150.
I also mentioned that gas came out to $40 more than my reserved minivan would use (I've saved receipts for both the previous Minivan trip and this last Pick-up trip).
My question now: with Central attempt to kick this complaint to the location - what can I possibly get? Sure, the location knows that they did nothing for me that entire day of April 11th, except they called me the total of four times every other hour - only to apologize that they can't help me. Until I told them "as I informed you at the outset: I absolutely MUST carry 6 people with luggage to Orlando today; so I had to take Dodge Pick-up from your neighboring location, and it is extremely uncomfortable, and it will definitely prove to consume more gas - and should I save my gas receipts?" They sounded disappointed to hear that. I wonder why: they couldn't offer me ANY large vehicle from any area location all day??
I also mentioned that gas came out to $40 more than my reserved minivan would use (I've saved receipts for both the previous Minivan trip and this last Pick-up trip).
My question now: with Central attempt to kick this complaint to the location - what can I possibly get? Sure, the location knows that they did nothing for me that entire day of April 11th, except they called me the total of four times every other hour - only to apologize that they can't help me. Until I told them "as I informed you at the outset: I absolutely MUST carry 6 people with luggage to Orlando today; so I had to take Dodge Pick-up from your neighboring location, and it is extremely uncomfortable, and it will definitely prove to consume more gas - and should I save my gas receipts?" They sounded disappointed to hear that. I wonder why: they couldn't offer me ANY large vehicle from any area location all day??
Last edited by SinglePapa2; May 3, 2014 at 8:12 am