Henry82

As many of you already know, there are two +50% transfer offers for AMEX MR points currently going on:
A) +50% to British Airways Miles
B) +50% to Delta Skymiles + 25k MQMs

... and I can't decide which one to take advantage of.

My goal is use the miles on Asia-originating, intercontinental travel in F or C class. Since neither BA nor DL have hubs in Asia, this is kind of a semi-comparison of the OneWorld vs. SkyTeam's network.

So far, I've gathered that BA charges high YQ fees when traveling on BA, (but partners CX and JL standout for their high quality premium products). DL has low-availability for low-tier award flights and skymiles cannot be redeemed for int'l first class. BA has unlimited stopovers/open-jaws while DL allows up to 2.

zilliontw

Depends on your flight pattern and what you look for. NRT is a hub for DL though.

I see you are gold with CI; if you continue to fly CI as your primary carrier for the foreseable future, you either stick with them (put miles in your CI account) to keep your elite status, or bail out to DL Skymiles when CI joins Skyteam.

If you fly Skyteam carriers often, then go with DL Skymiles as you'll instantly receive silver status (25k MQM).

If your goal is simply to REDEEM miles for intercontinental F/C tickets, I think BA Executive Club is MILES better than DL Skymiles. Skyteam in general has worse airlines quality-wise than oneworld, and Skypesos (Skymiles known here on FT) are more difficult to use for numerous reasons - no way to check partner availability online (except AF/KL); fuel surcharge applies to awards, etc.

Fuel isn't much of a big deal on CX and JL; you should check BA and DL's award charts to determine which program is better for you. DL doesn't have one-way redemptions (BA does, at 50% of roundtrip, on itself and oneworld partners), so another point for you to consider.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.601 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

Doesn't DL impose a high fee for award travel that originates in a foreign country?

Henry82

I agree with what you're saying about BA/OneWorld partners having with better quality products than Delta/ST. Furthermore, it's more a comparison of the Biz Class products since Delta SkyPesos can't be redeemed for F.

I just ran a dummy booking on Delta for two (2) Business class tickets with route: CAN-CDG(w/stopover)-FCO-CDG-CAN for travel in March 2012 and the total came out to be (120k + $141.90) X 2 = 240k + $283.80 tax/fees. Seems pretty low.

Thanks for the input guys! Keep them coming!

fiveninerzero

Incorrect. DL hubs it up in NRT. Also, you have more airlines to potentially redeem on with DL in that region, even if their miles are a ripoff. Try KE, MU, CZ, MH, CI, VN, etc. And make sure you call them up instead of attempting to use their crappy website.

Henry82

Is NRT the only Asian hub? Anything in China/HK? How are the premium products on the Asian airlines you listed?

...
Ran a dummy booking for two (2) business class tix for March 2012 on through BAEC: TPE-HKG-CDG r/t (had to run the booking from TPE to get the CX partner flights). Cost = (160k + $484.81) X 2 tix = 320k + $969.62. *In reality, I'd add a stopover/open jaw getting something like HKG-CDG-FCO-HKG, but that's gotta be done over the phone.

So, comparing between Delta vs. BA Biz Class tix for March 2012:
- Delta SkyMiles via Air France = 120k + $141.90
- BA Miles via Cathay Pacific = 160k + $484.81

Is CX Biz worth the additional 40k and YQ fees?

scwam

I plan on using my BA from Florida to Beijing via AA for 50k and $410 fuel charges in coach. Is there a better deal to be had?

Santander

Yes, NRT is DL's only Asian hub.

MU, MH and VN are not really big players so I don't think you have to think about them too much. I really want to like CZ, but you should expect something similar to CA standards, except for the English standard which I found to be typically lower. (I assume this won't be an issue for you) KE is more of a true major international airline, I haven't flown them in a long time but the last time I flew them in C was pretty good. Their food is a major claim to fame.

CX is my favourite airline but I would probably take the AF flight for a 40k miles and $340 difference. AF is still a good airline, probably the best in SkyTeam. (not that it has very much competition)

zilliontw

Yes NRT is the only hub. You need to realise that to be a "hub", the country where the airport is kinda needs to grant 5th freedom rights to foreign carriers. I don't see China opening PVG, PEK, etc for say AA/DL/UA do runs like PVG-BOM because of the airport capacity constraints there and they simply don't want to open business for competition.

NRT is a hub for AA, UA and DL because many US troops are based in Japan and it was (and probably still is) the biggest Asian market. You don't see Seoul being used as a hub for that matter, despite more US troops are based there.

I think in your situation, IF YOU CAN FIND AVAILABILITY, DL Skydollars are actually a better bet because Skymiles charge 1.5x Y for biz whereas BA charges 2x. So if you can be flexible, fly roundtrip and don't mind mix and match with odd carriers like VN, CZ, etc, DL could be superior to BA.

I wouldn't use 50k AND $410 for a bloody coach ticket. ALWAYS burn miles on biz tickets instead of eco, unless your itinerary is a bit off the map or in a hurry. You need to specifiy what your definition of "better deal" is - better usage of BA miles or better program for your FL-PEK itinerary.

Henry82

I'm going to take all the Chinese airlines out of the equation. They can't compete in the international premium product arena. I hadn't thought of KE, but definitely will look into them now. Thanks! ^

I'm having trouble with the CX vs. AF decision as well... Hard to justify 40k+$340.

I wasn't aware that the 1.5X vs. 2x rate for C was the standard for the two systems... thought it was just for the flights I was looking at. This info definitely is significant! Does it the same rate difference for mid and high tier awards?

Based on everyone's responses, fleet quality for Non-U.S., Asia-origin intercontinental travel in premium class favors BAEC(OW) over DLSM(ST). YQ fees are higher through BAEC than through DLSM. Award redemption availability favors BAEC over DLSM. Cost of C awards (can't compare F) is higher with BAEC(2x) than with DLSM(1.5x).

What other factors should we consider?

UA Fan

Op be careful of the current promo for DL, looks like DL is secretly un-enrolling people after transfering points or so.

Henry82

Thanks for the heads up! I just logged into Delta SkyMiles and everything seems to be in order, I'm still "registered" for the promotion.

Is anyone else having the same dilemma? Transfer AMEX MR points to BA vs. DL?

MyTravels

Yes, great topic to start a thread on. More of my travel is to South America, although it's probably just a matter of time before LA & AA have fuel surcharges on those routes too so I'm trying to look at the value broadly rather than focusing in on a select region.

I didn't see this mentioned above, but DL lets you mix & match carriers, while BA awards go mileage based if more than one non-BA carrier is used. Therefore if you have to fly AA to connect to CX, you'll either be looking at a richer reward or buying the domestic leg to get to a CX hub. Of course if you have to fly DL to get to KE, you'll just play hell finding a saver ticket and may end up buying the domestic leg in that case too.

Henry82

Thanks for the input, and I do hope this discussion benefits others!

In regards to the "multiple partners" issue: BA's multiple-partners redemption cost is outrageous... like MyTravels mentioned, the way around this is to cash buy the positioning leg, which isn't too bad since a flight to a major hub is typically short and cheap. It's an "additional cost" nonetheless, so avoiding would still be best. Non-issue if traveling between hubs.

Multiple carrier flexibility favors DL, hands down. Does lack of low-tier award availability (with said carriers) cancel out this advantage?

UA Fan

Yes, it was ranked second last in a recent WSJ survey. Search the dl forums for regular complaints.