italian7

Hello,

does anyone have any experience with this type of ticket?

I read the info online and came up with these "restrictions"

A Round the World Flight Award ticket includes one Atlantic and one Pacific crossing.
A maximum of ten flight segments (maximum of nine connecting flights) is allowed.
There must be an interval of at least ten days between the start of the first intercontinental flight and the start of the last intercontinental flight.
A Round the World Flight Award ticket remains valid for twelve months once issued.
A maximum of seven stopovers is allowed.


Now I understand I can only "stop" in 7 different cities.
By flight segments what do they mean.
If i have to go from FCO to NY and I have a layover in FRA (2h, no stopover) is it two segments? (FCO-FRA, FRA-JFK) and one connecting flight or two connecting flights?

Also I read that for some tickets you have to go from East to West or viceversa. Is it the same for Lufthansa?
Does it mean that the next city has to be (lets say I do east to west) further west than the previous one? (does this also have to hold true for the layover?)

Another question, can I fly in to GRU for example and leave from GIG, is there a limit on how many "disjoint" flights I can take?

Does the Award have a limit number of miles flown?


Thanks to anyone that can answer any of these questions or that has any imput as to flights.

My idea was to do FCO-USA-MEXICO-S/A-NEW ZELAND - AUSTRALIA - EAST ASIA - FCO.

Also is it limited to Star Alliance or can I also use MM partners?

Flying Lawyer

You are allowed 10 flights so FCO-FRA-JFK is two flights. You are allowed seven stopovers. If you do not stay longer than 24 hours in Frankfurt, you will have used 2 flights, however still have seven stopovers available.

You cannot use M&M partners like Air India or Qatar, but only Star Alliance flights. There is a nice tool on the Star Alliance website to plan such an itinerary. However, this does not show award availablity, however, allows you to play around with flights and destinations.

DownUnderFlyer

I see some problems with this routing. Firstly, this can easily be too many flights depending on the exact routing. So saving segments will be key (for example buying a cheap flight to FRA and then starting from there and then to use the gained segment for a more expensive flight later).
The other problem is South America - NZ. No *A carrier flies that route so you will need to backtrack through the US which adds distance and segments.

red star

Going first to GRU and then to the US (like FRA-GRU-LAX-AKL...) and doing MEX on a different tix might help to save a lot of segments. Also, arriving in GRU and departing from GIG comes at a price of on leg and two stopover. At least the RTW award is not limited regarding the number of miles flown.

Jasper2009

Generally backtracking is not permitted (though some agents say it´s permitted within one award region), though afaik the rule isn´t strictly enforced (e.g. backtracking within western Europe, within South America or a route like FRA-JNB-GRU all are fine).
Depending on how well the M&M agent is trained you may get away with a bit of backtracking, but I wouldn´t try LAX-NYC-YYZ-SFO-AKL. (although I was recently able to convince an agent that FRA-NRT-BKK-SYD isn´t really backtracking )

There´s no mileage limit which is one of the great advantages of the RTW award. Theoretically you could visit all continents (about 45k miles of flying).

As there are no *A flights from South America to Australia I´d recommend the following routing:

FCO-FRA-GRU(LH/LX/TAM)-GIG(TAM)-USA/Canada(TAM/AC/UA/US/CO)-NZ/SYD/MEL(UA/NZ/AC)-Asia-FCO

Finding award seats from NA to Australia/NZ will be the most difficult part, especially when travelling in C.

Check out YVR-SYD(AC), LAX/SFO-SYD/MEL(UA) and SFO/LAX/YVR-AKL(NZ) as well as LAX-AKL(NZ) via the Pacific Islands (RAR/HNL)

Good luck!

italian7

Guys thank you for your advice!! Really appreciate all your answers.
I still have to figure out where I really want to go but I know I should start looking at tickets as I hope to leave in January 2011.


As for what red star said,
it seems strange that ex. FRA-GRU, GIG-LAX count as two stopovers. It's really just an openjaw. Shouldn't it count as one? (I mean why would they care?)

red star

On a RTW booking the idea of open-jaw does not really exist (except to a certain extend for start/end of journey). Even hiking GRU-GIG is considered to be a segment. Assuming the time between arrival in GRU and departure from GIG is more than 24 hours you will waste a segment and two stopover (one for GRU, one for GIG).

italian7

WOW that really messes everything up....

I just jotted down some flights.

FCO-IST-GRU (less then 24h in IST so no stopover)
go south / est.
SCL-GRU
go up / north
other internal flights (not RTW)...

____

YYZ-YVR-HNL (less then 24h in YVR)
hawaii
HNL-AKL
other internal fights (not RTW)
SYD-SIN-NRT (less than 24h in SIN)
around japan
NRT-BKK
thailand
BKK-FCO

This would be a total of 10 segments (so thats good)
there are a few "real" stopovers
GRU 1st time, GRU 2nd time, HNL (3rd), AKL (4th), NRT (5th), BKK (6th).
But if we count the "open jaws" they come out to
GRU(1), SCL(2), GRU(3), YYZ(4), HNL(5), AKL(6), SYD(7), NRT(8), BKK(9)
to bring it "down" to 7 i would have to cut the SCL-GRU flight.

Flying Lawyer

That will not work either. A RTW is not a bunch of o/w tickets but it works like a pearl string. So you need to have A to B to C to D on your ticket. If you only book A to B and C to D and go B to C surface or on a seperate ticket, then it will nevertheless count as a segment and/or a stopover.

Even

FCO-IST-GRU-YYZ-YVR-HNL-AKL-SYD-SIN-NRT-BKK-FCO

will not work, it is a segment too much. My advice: Buy your RTW eg out of ANR or another cheap origin. Much mor flexibility and segments. The award RTW is not a good deal at all.

Kiwi Flyer

Some comments on your proposed itinerary.

Surface segments count as a segment, so you currently have 13 segments.
As you've already noted you have too many stopovers also.

HNL-AKL on NZ is only 2 per week. If you are in business class it is 767 (thus the old business seats not the very nice new ones NZ has.

If in business SQ SYD-SIN and SIN-NRT are not readily available (very limited awards for A380 and 77W aircraft) and even more difficult in first.

Similarly, North America to Australia or NZ on business (or first) award is difficult due to limited availability. Routes include YVR-SYD, SFO/LAX-SYD/MEL, YVR/SFO/LAX/HNL-AKL, LAX-RAR-AKL (single flight number), LAX-APW-TBU-AKL (single flight number)

If you make the core something like IST-GRU-IAD-xLAX-AKL-SYD-BKK-IST (x denotes transit without stopover), then

- you have 3 more segments & 2 more stopovers to use
- you haven't mentioned class of travel but all of these flights are 3 class, except LAX-AKL (NZ business premier is very good or see alternative below) and AKL-SYD (a mix of one class and two class)
- Canada can easily be reached from IAD
- south pacific islands are easily and cheaply reached from AKL on separate ticket (NB Hawaii is more expensive from AKL)
- if you decide to drop both NZ and south pacific islands then LAX-SYD saves a further segment and stopover, and has 3 class
- BKK is a cheap origin to travel to other places in Asia on a separate ticket and TG availability is much better than SQ availability if you include in the same ticket (but TG product is much worse than SQ)

A couple of other points to ponder

- TK (Turkish) currently has F on some routes (eg BKK-IST), with easy award availability, however this will be phased out as the aircraft are returned from lease to Jet
- JJ (TAM) is in merger talks with LA (LAN) and may leave *A. There is zero chance it will be completed within a year but it will be a major distraction to the airline and service levels may be affected

italian7

Wow you guys are great. I forgot to add the RTW ticket would be in Business class...

Would this work.

IST-GRU TK
stop
GRU-MAP JJ
stop (guess it would count as two)
IAD-SFO-AUK UA / NZ
stop
AUK-SYD NZ
stop
SYD-SIN-NRT (less than 24h in SIN) SG / NH
stop
NRT-BKK NH or TG
stop
BKK-IST TK

9 flights, 7 stops.
Of course this is all pointless with out looking at availability. But you gotta know where to start looking!

Thanks again.
I will not really have time in the next couple of weeks but I will definitely update my thread as I start looking for availability and let you know on the final routing!

Flying Lawyer

This should work. However: Check again a paid RtW ex a cheap origin, This gives you by far more segments and stops and it might even be cheaper at the end considering all this side trips you plan. There is good information in the Star Alliance forum

italian7

Thanks, I'll definitely take a look.

Last question for now.
Looking at the ANA tool redemption on SQ is extremely hard (in C) even on 744 (lately I have not been able to find JFK-FRA in C) and non-existent on 77W/A388.
I remember reading that LH had some separate availability for SQ 77W/A388? Is it possibile?
I mean are there ANY chances of getting C awards with 77W A388 metal on SQ with M&M?

Thanks again!

Jasper2009

Yes, M&M has a special agreement with SQ, if you book well in advance and are flexible with regards to dates/routes (e.g. SIN to Western Europe over a 7 days period) you should be able to get an award seat in C.

Unfortunately the only way to check availability is to call M&M.

tnmlyger

Flying Lawyer - I agree with you: the RTW award is a bad deal UNLESS you are having MPM troubles on the RTW. I did an RTW in 2008 that I couldn't ticket as paid travel but which I was able to ticket as an award because the awards didn't have an MPM limitation.