What can make a fare unbookable
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
What can make a fare unbookable
What things can make a fare unbookable?
There has been a fare I've been keeping my eye on for a while - trying to figure the exact dates I wanted to fly. The fare would show up on ITA, Google Flights, and various OTAs (such as Orbitz, Expedia, etc).
But now it has disappeared from all of them, regardless of travel dates.
The fare still exists, doesn't appear to be changed and hasn't been pulled - I can see it in ExpertFlyer.
I'm not running in to advance purchase restrictions - Fare has a 28 day advance purchase, and I'm complying with it.
I'm not running into ticketing restrictions - Must be ticketed 14 days after reservation, 28 days prior to travel
I'm not running into seasonality restrictions - Fare is from Jan01 to Dec31.
I'm not running into minimum stay restrictions - Fare requires Saturday night stay, and I'm complying with it.
I'm not running into the booking class having zeroed out availability - availability is quite good.
Not running into maximum stay restrictions - up to 12 months is allowed
Other items:
Eligibility: No eligibility restrictions apply
Day/Time: No Day/Time Travel restrictions apply
Blackout Dates: No Blackout dates apply
Not trying to do anything funny with the routing - only using a single connection on the most direct route, which is the required route.
Any ideas what could cause a fare to suddenly become unbookable? I'm stumped.
There has been a fare I've been keeping my eye on for a while - trying to figure the exact dates I wanted to fly. The fare would show up on ITA, Google Flights, and various OTAs (such as Orbitz, Expedia, etc).
But now it has disappeared from all of them, regardless of travel dates.
The fare still exists, doesn't appear to be changed and hasn't been pulled - I can see it in ExpertFlyer.
I'm not running in to advance purchase restrictions - Fare has a 28 day advance purchase, and I'm complying with it.
I'm not running into ticketing restrictions - Must be ticketed 14 days after reservation, 28 days prior to travel
I'm not running into seasonality restrictions - Fare is from Jan01 to Dec31.
I'm not running into minimum stay restrictions - Fare requires Saturday night stay, and I'm complying with it.
I'm not running into the booking class having zeroed out availability - availability is quite good.
Not running into maximum stay restrictions - up to 12 months is allowed
Other items:
Eligibility: No eligibility restrictions apply
Day/Time: No Day/Time Travel restrictions apply
Blackout Dates: No Blackout dates apply
Not trying to do anything funny with the routing - only using a single connection on the most direct route, which is the required route.
Any ideas what could cause a fare to suddenly become unbookable? I'm stumped.
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
Also the fare is published for other city pairs, where VS metal is available. Same problem - was bookable, but is not any longer bookable.
#4
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Not that mostly rules are updated regardless of a specific fare (those apply to all fares referenced to a same rule) and killing some specific fare is normally not intentional, intentional changes would involve a fare removal.
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
Did you check flight restrictions (airlines [marketing and operating] and flight numbers) plus booking class restrictions for a secondary airline (I assume DL)? Sometime booking classes for main airlines are deleted making a fare unbookable too. Also transfer rules are now are very wise to stupid - can easily kill a fare too.
Not that mostly rules are updated regardless of a specific fare (those apply to all fares referenced to a same rule) and killing some specific fare is normally not intentional, intentional changes would involve a fare removal.
Not that mostly rules are updated regardless of a specific fare (those apply to all fares referenced to a same rule) and killing some specific fare is normally not intentional, intentional changes would involve a fare removal.
Booking class restrictions are ok.
Transfer restrictions are ok.
Nothing seems to have changed, but now fare won't show up in any search results.
Here's an example of ZEUR28 on VS for BRU-SEA.
Routing info:
Code:
V FARE BASIS BK FARE TRAVEL-TICKET AP MINMAX RTG 1 ZEUR28 Z R 1621.00 ---- 28/14SU/12M AT01 PASSENGER TYPE-ADT AUTO PRICE-YES FROM-BRU TO-SEA CXR-VS TVL-29MAR15 RULE-2022 IPRA/1 FARE BASIS-ZEUR28 SPECIAL FARE DIS-N VENDOR-ATP FARE TYPE-BX RT-BUSINESS CLASS EXCURSION EUR 1481.00 0037 E20JUL14 D-INFINITY FC-ZEUR28 FN- SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 19JUL14/1113 EXPIRES INFINITY PUBLISHED RTG BRU-SEA/VS37 /TAR-TARG EF-20JUL14 DIS-INDEF /VIA THE ATLANTIC/ DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN ORIG/DEST COUNTRIES MAP CONSTRUCTED LEFT TO RIGHT AND RIGHT TO LEFT 1. BRU-BA/SN-LON-VS-SEA
Code:
Booking Class >$LB47 047 BRUSEA 29MAR15 VS USD 1621.00 ZEUR28 STAY-SU/12MBK-Z FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES -------- ---------------------- ---------- ZEUR28 BUSINESS EXCURSION FARES Z ZEUR28 BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES FOR ROUND TRIP FA RES BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS VIA BE R REQUIRED ALL BUSINESS VIA IR I REQUIRED ALL BUSINESS VIA AS F REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE ALL BUSINESS WITHIN USA VIA VS Z REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE Z- FARES WITHIN USA VIA VS W REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE Z- FARES WITHIN USA VIA VS Y REQUIRED Z- FARES WITHIN USA VIA IG I REQUIRED ALL BUSINESS WITHIN EUROPE Alternate Airline (BRITISH AIRWAYS (BA)) >$LB47/BA 047 BRUSEA 29MAR15 VS USD 1621.00 ZEUR28 STAY-SU/12MBK-Z FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES -------- ---------------------- ---------- ZEUR28 BUSINESS EXCURSION FARES Z ZEUR28 BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES FOR ROUND TRIP FA RES BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: BA IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED FLTS 6200-6449 IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE BETWEEN LHR-NCE IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-NCE IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE BETWEEN LHR-BSL IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-BSL IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE BETWEEN LHR-DUB IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-DUB IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-OSL IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-AMS IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-STO IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-BCN IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-CPH IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-GVA IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-BRU IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-DUS IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-HAM IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-MUC IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-GLA IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-LIS IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-MAN IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-NCL IF VIA VS ALL BUSINESS VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-PAR VIA BA D REQUIRED BETWEEN LHR-ZRH IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT BA VIA BA NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS 0510-0526 VIA BA R REQUIRED WHEN OFFERED ALL BUSINESS VIA BA T PERMITTED ALL BUSINESS VIA BA B REQUIRED ALL BUSINESS Alternate Airline (BRUSSELS AIRLINES (SN)) >$LB47/SN 047 BRUSEA 29MAR15 VS USD 1621.00 ZEUR28 STAY-SU/12MBK-Z FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES -------- ---------------------- ---------- ZEUR28 BUSINESS EXCURSION FARES Z ZEUR28 BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES FOR ROUND TRIP FA RES BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: SN IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN VIA SN NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS 5153-5161 IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN VIA SN NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS BETWEEN BRU-CAI IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN VIA SN NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS BETWEEN BRU-IEV IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN VIA SN NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS 4211-4214 IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN VIA SN NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS BETWEEN BRU-INDIA IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT SN ALL BUSINESS VIA SN Z REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE VIA SN Y REQUIRED
Code:
RULE APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. UPPER CLASS APEX FARES BETWEEN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES APPLICATION AREA THESE FARES APPLY BETWEEN EUROPE AND UNITED STATES. CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR BUSINESS CLASS SERVICE. TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION THIS RULE GOVERNS ROUND-TRIP FARES. FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE ROUND-TRIP/CIRCLE-TRIP/OPEN-JAW JOURNEYS. THESE FARES APPLY ON UPPER CLASS/BUSINESS CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS THE CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS CARRIED ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE AND SUCH FARES WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS. THE NUMBER OF SEATS, WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE AVAILABLE ON A GIVEN FLIGHT, WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE CARRIERS BEST JUDGEMENT. ELIGIBILITY NO ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS APPLY. DAY/TIME NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY. SEASONALITY PERMITTED 01JAN THROUGH 31DEC ON THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL SECTOR. SEASON IS BASED ON DATE OF ORIGIN. FLIGHT APPLICATION IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN UNITED KINGDOM AND UNITED STATES THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY VS FLIGHT OPERATED BY VS. ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 28 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE. TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 14 DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 28 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER. MINIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN THE FIRST SUN AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE OUTBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR. MAXIMUM STAY TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN. STOPOVERS IF THE FARE COMPONENT IS ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING VS FLIGHTS 4000 THROUGH 4999. NO STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT. OTHERWISE 2 STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT - 1 IN EACH DIRECTION AT EUR 200.00 EACH IN UNITED KINGDOM CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY. TRANSFERS UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT. FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS PERMITTED ON THE FARE COMPONENT. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. LIMOUSINE TRANSFERS ARE NOT PERMITTED COMBINATIONS END-ON-END END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS. FARES MUST BE SHOWN SEPARATELY ON THE TICKET. TRAVEL NEED NOT BE VIA THE POINT OF COMBINATION. OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS -TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/ CIRCLE TRIPS. PROVIDED - COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE FOR CARRIER VS IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF. BLACKOUT DATES NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY. SURCHARGES NO SURCHARGE REQUIREMENTS APPLY. ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL NOT REQUIRED. TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY. SALES RESTRICTIONS FARE RULE TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON THE STOCK OF VS. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. IN THE EVENT OF DEATH OF A PASSENGER EN ROUTE TICKET VALIDITY OF PERSONS ACCOMPANYING THE PASSENGER MAY BE EXTENDED FOR UP TO 45 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF DEATH AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH CERTIFICATE. IN THE EVENT OF DEATH IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY OF A PASSENGER WHO HAS COMMENCED TRAVEL THE VALIDITY OF THE PASSENGERS TICKET AND THOSE ACCOMPANYING THEM MAY BE EXTENDED FOR UP TO 45 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF DEATH AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH CERTIFICATE. GENERAL RULE - APPLY UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED BY ELECTRONIC TICKETING. EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY IS NOT PERMITTED. PENALTIES CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE EUR 350.00 FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. WAIVER - FOR DEATH/ILLNESS OF PAX OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH/HOSPITAL CERTIFICATE.KEEP THE ORIGINAL FARE AND REBOOK AS REQUIRED CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. MAY BE USED AS CREDIT TOWARDS THE PURCHASE OF A HIGHER VS FARE TYPE WITH A PENALTY OF EUR350 AND COLLECTION OF FARE DIFFERENCE HOWEVER IN THE EVENT OF SUBSEQUENT CANCELLATION THE ORIGINAL NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT WILL REMAIN NON-REFUNDABLE. ---- THE FARE MUST BE RECALCULATED FROM THE POINT OF ORIGIN AND ANY DIFFERENCE COLLECTED. MIN/MAX STAY REQUIREMENTS AND ADVANCE PERIOD MUST BE ADHERED TO. ---- WAIVER FOR ILLNESS OF PASSENGER OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER ONLY APPLIES IN THE EVENT OF CERTIFIABLE HOSPITALISATION. ---- WAIVER FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER APPLIES AS EVIDENCED BY A DEATH CERTIFICATE. ---- IN THE EVENT OF CANCELLATION OR FAILURE TO USE CONFIRMED SPACE AN MPD WILL NOT BE ISSUED FOR FURTHER TRANSPORTATION. -------------------------------------------------- REFUNDS ARE NOT PERMITTED OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF VALIDITY OF THE TICKET IN ACCORDANCE WITH IATA GENERAL CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE HIP/MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS NO HIP OR MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS APPLY. TICKET ENDORSEMENTS THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED - NON END / PENALTIES APPLY - IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX. CHILDREN DISCOUNTS CNN/ACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 2-11 - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 16 OR OLDER. OR - 1ST INF/INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE 10 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 16 OR OLDER. OR - INS/INFANT WITH A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT BY ADULT PSGR 16 OR OLDER. OR - UNN/UNACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 5-11 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. CHILDREN AGED 5-15 YEARS MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN THE SAME CABIN BY AN ADULT 16 YEARS OR OLDER. ALL OTHER CHILDREN AGED 5 TO 15 YEARS MUST PAY THE ADULT FARE AND WILL BE TREATED AS UNACCOMPANIED. PNRS MUST BE CROSS REFERENCED STATING ACCOMPANYING PAX DETAILS WHERE ADULTS AND CHILDREN ARE BOOKED IN SEPARATE PNRS. UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN MUST BE REGISTERED IN ADVANCE OF TRAVEL FOR THE UNACCOMPANIED CHILD SERVICE AND A DECLARATION OF INDEMNITY COMPLETED PRIOR TO TRAVEL BY THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN. UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN WILL ONLY BE ACCEPTED FOR ON-LINE TRAVEL AND THIS SERVICE IS NOT APPLICABLE FOR ANY TRANSFERS BY RAIL/ROAD E.G. LGW-LHR. TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS NO DISCOUNTS FOR TOUR CONDUCTORS. AGENT DISCOUNTS NO DISCOUNTS FOR SALE AGENTS. ALL OTHER DISCOUNTS NO DISCOUNTS FOR OTHERS. MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS THIS FARE MUST NOT BE USED AS THROUGH FARE WITH A DIFFERENTIAL AND/OR TO CALCULATE DIFFERENTIAL. FARE BY RULE NOT APPLICABLE. GROUPS NO GROUP PROVISIONS APPLY. TOURS NO TOUR PROVISIONS APPLY. VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY NO VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY PROVISIONS APPLY. DEPOSITS NO DEPOSIT PROVISIONS APPLY. VOLUNTARY CHANGES NO VOLUNTARY CHANGES DATA FOUND. VOLUNTARY REFUNDS NO VOLUNTARY REFUNDS DATA FOUND. NEGOTIATED FARES NOT APPLICABLE. INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION NOT A CONSTRUCTED FARE
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
Nope. It never shows up now. It is as if the fare suddenly didn't exist anymore - even though it still does, and it used to show up.
#8
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I think they might have changed some of the rules, the "FLIGHT APPLICATION" section says:
"IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN UNITED KINGDOM AND UNITED STATES THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY VS FLIGHT OPERATED BY VS."
Doesn't look like DL codeshares work anymore.
Last edited by janetdoe; Mar 30, 2015 at 12:35 am
#9
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
Got it!
If you search ExpertFlyer using a ticketing date March 24 or earlier, the fare was $1565 and the "Flight Application" says "No flight restrictions apply."
On March 25 or later, the fare is $1621 and it is now restricted to only VS-operated flights per my post above.
They updated the fare/rules.
On March 25 or later, the fare is $1621 and it is now restricted to only VS-operated flights per my post above.
They updated the fare/rules.
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SEA once more (previously CDG and NRT)
Programs: Former DL DM and UA 1k, now a J class free agent (UA Gold, AS MVP Gold)
Posts: 2,450
If you search ExpertFlyer using a ticketing date March 24 or earlier, the fare was $1565 and the "Flight Application" says "No flight restrictions apply."
On March 25 or later, the fare is $1621 and it is now restricted to only VS-operated flights per my post above.
They updated the fare/rules.
On March 25 or later, the fare is $1621 and it is now restricted to only VS-operated flights per my post above.
They updated the fare/rules.
Bummer that the DL codeshares have been dropped.