Where do Marriott Brands Match Up w/ SPG Brands
Jan 14, 2016, 5:44 pm
#1
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Where do Marriott Brands Match Up w/ SPG Brands
I'm trying to figure out what brands to take a look at that match-up well with the SPG brands I'm used to. I'm not worried about the limited service brands, just Marriott and above. Based on my limited reading on this board I've made an attempt here:
Marriott = Sheraton: Utilitarian, some very nice, some crappy and in need of serious staff retraining or refresh.
JW=Westin: Entry-level luxury (have no idea what the official term is for the brand). (My favorite general brand.)
????=LeMeridien
Autograph = Tribute/Luxury Collection: Otherwise historic/independent hotels. No specific brand standard so as not to make the experience cookie-cutter. Often understated luxury. (My personal favorite of all brands.)
RC = St. Regis: Top Brand (Personally, too stuffy for me but we've all got our thing.)
Marriott = Sheraton: Utilitarian, some very nice, some crappy and in need of serious staff retraining or refresh.
JW=Westin: Entry-level luxury (have no idea what the official term is for the brand). (My favorite general brand.)
????=LeMeridien
Autograph = Tribute/Luxury Collection: Otherwise historic/independent hotels. No specific brand standard so as not to make the experience cookie-cutter. Often understated luxury. (My personal favorite of all brands.)
RC = St. Regis: Top Brand (Personally, too stuffy for me but we've all got our thing.)
Jan 14, 2016, 8:03 pm
#2
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
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Here's an earlier comparison (it's been well-documented that Marriott plans to keep all/most of the brands):
Wonder what will happen with all those new brands...
W might become Renaissance
Luxury Collection a mix of JW and RC
St Regis might turn into RC
Westin a mix of JW and FS Marriott
Sheraton might become a mix of FS and Renaissance
Four Points might turn into a mix of Delta and Courtyard
Aloft might become AC by Marriott
Tribute Collection will certainly become Autograph Collection
Sheraton, Westin, Element and Aloft might also remain standalone brands
W might become Renaissance
Luxury Collection a mix of JW and RC
St Regis might turn into RC
Westin a mix of JW and FS Marriott
Sheraton might become a mix of FS and Renaissance
Four Points might turn into a mix of Delta and Courtyard
Aloft might become AC by Marriott
Tribute Collection will certainly become Autograph Collection
Sheraton, Westin, Element and Aloft might also remain standalone brands
Jan 15, 2016, 2:39 am
#3
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Sheraton, Westin, Element and Aloft might also remain standalone brands
(I've got the same demur with Hilton and Accor by the way)
Not to say it may be good to keep the brand names for a while in a transition phase.
However, in the long term there must be a significant difference to keep investing in different brands and each brand must have some kind of value proposition to a specific market segment. I've got the idea they have covered each and every market segment pretty well with the current brands (except may be B&B but I doubt this is something they want to cover).
And already know borders between the brand are pretty vague and some properties are outliers in their specific brand.
Jan 15, 2016, 4:40 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Do we really need another thread on this?? This has been talked about extensively already in just these two alone:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...wood-12bn.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...ve-merger.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...wood-12bn.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...ve-merger.html
Jan 15, 2016, 5:54 am
#5
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Do we really need another thread on this?? This has been talked about extensively already in just these two alone:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...wood-12bn.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...ve-merger.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...wood-12bn.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...ve-merger.html
Jan 15, 2016, 5:56 am
#6
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BUt, thanks. This list helps.
Jan 15, 2016, 6:11 am
#7
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Based on my limited experience there, and from what I've read on the SPG board, it seems like Sheraton is a decrepit brand; Marriott is not. Not to say that there aren't lousy Marriotts and good Sheratons, just as a general impression. I would say it's unusual, but not unheard of, to stay at a Marriott and feel that the staff is in need of serious retraining. Just IMO.
Jan 15, 2016, 7:07 am
#8
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Based on my limited experience there, and from what I've read on the SPG board, it seems like Sheraton is a decrepit brand; Marriott is not. Not to say that there aren't lousy Marriotts and good Sheratons, just as a general impression. I would say it's unusual, but not unheard of, to stay at a Marriott and feel that the staff is in need of serious retraining. Just IMO.
Jan 15, 2016, 9:24 am
#9
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I would liken the Sheraton brand to Hilton's Doubletrees. While there are some nice ones out there, there are quite a few real dogs as well. One of Marriott's strengths (or some might say weakness) is they adhere pretty strictly to some set standards and don't let hotels vary much from those. The result is you know what your getting at most every FS Marriott (as it was the same as what you got at the last Marriott you stayed at.)
Note that other Marriott brands might allow for more variability in layout, design, etc.
Note that other Marriott brands might allow for more variability in layout, design, etc.
Jan 15, 2016, 11:17 am
#10
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Here's Arne Sorenson's perspective on this subject (from the transcript of the Marriott International and Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Conference Call, November 16, 2015):
Vince Ciepiel - Cleveland Research Company: Great, thanks. First from a branding perspective how do you see the upper upscale portfolio evolving over the next few years? And does the Sheraton or Westin product provide you something differentiated versus Marriott’s existing portfolio domestically?
Arne Sorenson - Marriott International, Inc.: Yes. I think so. The Westin we think is, it’s obviously a smaller brand than Sheraton and Marriott, and is a strong brand which we think can continue to grow right in the space that it’s in. We talked about Sheraton a bit and the Sheraton Grand sub-branding for the better assets and the need to cull the bottom end of that brand if you will.
I think the Marriott brand will continue to perform well. I wouldn’t see us changing the positioning of Marriott Hotels & Resorts brands and that they are in a fairly distinct place. They are certainly in a different place in terms of performance.
Beyond that you get to Le Meridien and Renaissance. Those are brands which are competing in a fairly near place it seems to me. And so we’ll want to see whether or not -- what the right approach is exactly between those two brands. And we don’t really have the answers to that yet. Again we need to get the Meridien team their advice, we need to get the Meridien owners also to tell us what their perspective is about things.
Then you end up with Autograph which is a very strong and Tribute which is Starwood’s very recent entry into this Collection space. They obviously just did a big deal in Las Vegas last week which they announced. We’ll see where those brands go.
But I think generally with the exception of a couple of points I just made we think the brands in the upper upscale space will continue to perform with the rough positioning that they have today.
Arne Sorenson - Marriott International, Inc.: Yes. I think so. The Westin we think is, it’s obviously a smaller brand than Sheraton and Marriott, and is a strong brand which we think can continue to grow right in the space that it’s in. We talked about Sheraton a bit and the Sheraton Grand sub-branding for the better assets and the need to cull the bottom end of that brand if you will.
I think the Marriott brand will continue to perform well. I wouldn’t see us changing the positioning of Marriott Hotels & Resorts brands and that they are in a fairly distinct place. They are certainly in a different place in terms of performance.
Beyond that you get to Le Meridien and Renaissance. Those are brands which are competing in a fairly near place it seems to me. And so we’ll want to see whether or not -- what the right approach is exactly between those two brands. And we don’t really have the answers to that yet. Again we need to get the Meridien team their advice, we need to get the Meridien owners also to tell us what their perspective is about things.
Then you end up with Autograph which is a very strong and Tribute which is Starwood’s very recent entry into this Collection space. They obviously just did a big deal in Las Vegas last week which they announced. We’ll see where those brands go.
But I think generally with the exception of a couple of points I just made we think the brands in the upper upscale space will continue to perform with the rough positioning that they have today.
Jan 16, 2016, 10:44 am
#11
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Thanks. I guess Sheraton (and Hilton...I was Diamond with Hilton until 2010 when I switched the bulk of my stays to SPG) has made me wary of the mass-market business brand. I have to stay at Sheraton alot because there isn't a Westin or Luxury Collection or LeM available and the quality is all over the map. SPG was going to deal with this through renovations and calling the best Sheratons "Grand" but who knows where that initiative is going with the merger.
But now the concept of chain hotels is many decades old.
And so some of the chain hotels themselves, even if they were built as the brands they are now (and not all of them were), are getting decades old.
Tearing down and rebuilding is not always practical. Even major refurbishing may be difficult depending on how the original building was constructed.
Now, not all "lesser quality" hotels are that way because of age, but a lot of it does correlate to age. But what can you do about it, other than shift to brand new brands (which may not have the features you need) just because they're brand-spanking new? Or use reviews to weed out the hotels you don't want to stay in (but of course that can be time consuming).
Jan 16, 2016, 10:55 am
#12
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Based on my limited experience there, and from what I've read on the SPG board, it seems like Sheraton is a decrepit brand; Marriott is not. Not to say that there aren't lousy Marriotts and good Sheratons, just as a general impression. I would say it's unusual, but not unheard of, to stay at a Marriott and feel that the staff is in need of serious retraining. Just IMO.
Jan 17, 2016, 12:59 pm
#13
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It gets more complicated with Renaissance, JW Marriott, Westin, W, and Le Méridien. Hotels within these brands range from traditional full-service to luxury, with varying doses of contemporary "lifestyle" characteristics. Direct one-to-one correlation between Marriott and Starwood brands in this full-service "upper-upscale" field would be open for debate.
Autograph Collection and Tribute Portfolio seem to be positioned similarly (but I've never stayed at a Tribute Portfolio property).
At the select service end of the spectrum, two "lifestyle" select service brands, Moxy and Aloft, seem to be positioned similarly (but I've never stayed at a Moxy).
Also at the select service end, Marriott has three rather well-defined brands: Courtyard, Springhill Suites, and Fairfield Inn. Starwood has its catch-all brand, Four Points.
And that still leaves a bunch of other brands in the combined Marriott and Starwood portfolios, which add up to 30 brands.
At one time (many many many decades ago) chain hotels were fairly new.
But now the concept of chain hotels is many decades old.
And so some of the chain hotels themselves, even if they were built as the brands they are now (and not all of them were), are getting decades old.
Tearing down and rebuilding is not always practical. Even major refurbishing may be difficult depending on how the original building was constructed.
Now, not all "lesser quality" hotels are that way because of age, but a lot of it does correlate to age. But what can you do about it, other than shift to brand new brands (which may not have the features you need) just because they're brand-spanking new? Or use reviews to weed out the hotels you don't want to stay in (but of course that can be time consuming).
But now the concept of chain hotels is many decades old.
And so some of the chain hotels themselves, even if they were built as the brands they are now (and not all of them were), are getting decades old.
Tearing down and rebuilding is not always practical. Even major refurbishing may be difficult depending on how the original building was constructed.
Now, not all "lesser quality" hotels are that way because of age, but a lot of it does correlate to age. But what can you do about it, other than shift to brand new brands (which may not have the features you need) just because they're brand-spanking new? Or use reviews to weed out the hotels you don't want to stay in (but of course that can be time consuming).
There are plenty of top-notch hotels that are around a century old. There are relatively new hotels from the 1990s and even the 2000s that have been allowed to deteriorate by cheap owners who fail to understand that guests will gravitate to up-to-date, well-maintained, well-run hotels.
Older properties often have great locations. If the hotels were built as upscale, full-service hotels, they can be kept that way.
Last edited by Horace; Jan 17, 2016 at 1:04 pm
Jan 17, 2016, 3:19 pm
#14
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While the OP's question is different from the ones posed in the other two threads, the answers are sounding awfully similar. But then the answer to the OP's question should be very simple. If the OP does not like the current Marriott brands, the OP does not need to stay elsewhere, as the SPG hotels will still be there (unless of course, the post-merger Marriott family becomes so crowded that some former SPG hotel, which the OP likes, decides to leave).
Jan 17, 2016, 4:32 pm
#15
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While the OP's question is different from the ones posed in the other two threads, the answers are sounding awfully similar. But then the answer to the OP's question should be very simple. If the OP does not like the current Marriott brands, the OP does not need to stay elsewhere, as the SPG hotels will still be there (unless of course, the post-merger Marriott family becomes so crowded that some former SPG hotel, which the OP likes, decides to leave).
I know the Hilton and Hyatt brands very well. I don't know Marriott at all (it's been years (if not a decade or more) since I've stayed at any Marriott hotel. So I figure I'll stay at some higher-end Marriott brands this year.
(I'm not worried about the lower-end.) All the 4pts I've stayed at are complete crap so the Marriott brands must be competitive to the Hilton Family/Hyatt hotels I stay at on the lower end.