Buy a house with MS (do not attempt)
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New England
Programs: DL PM, HH Gold, the rest come and go
Posts: 313
Buy a house with MS (do not attempt)
This is a terrible idea I've been turning over in my head for months now, and I decided the best thing to do would be to write it down, turn it over to the community and take all the well-earned criticism.
Most (all?) states have a homestead exemption in their bankruptcy laws such that you aren't required to sell your primary residence in order to pay unsecured creditors.
So, it seems to me technically feasible to get a mortgage (at almost any interest rate, since you won't be paying more than a year or two of interest), then over the course of many months of manufactured spend run up your credit card balances and using the manufactured spend to make early mortgage payments (you'd need a mortgage that doesn't penalize these) instead of paying off the credit cards. You'd only make the minimum payments on your credit cards, so you'd be paying interest on those balances.
Then, after fully paying off your mortgage (or paying it off up to your state's homestead exemption, if applicable), declare bankruptcy and have the credit card debt discharged.
You'll then have converted debt into wealth. You could even sell the house and collect the cash once you've exited bankruptcy.
Obviously this is just a version of "manufacture spend and flee the country," but this assumes you'd like to remain in the country within reach of US courts.
Obvious pitfalls:
1. Ruining your credit for years
2. Fraud charges since you didn't intend to repay the credit card debt?
3. Wage garnishment in bankruptcy court?
4. Homes are expensive to own and maintain, property taxes, etc.
So, while I would never do this – and no one else should either! – it does seem technically feasible to me. I know I can count on the community to explain why it's not.
Most (all?) states have a homestead exemption in their bankruptcy laws such that you aren't required to sell your primary residence in order to pay unsecured creditors.
So, it seems to me technically feasible to get a mortgage (at almost any interest rate, since you won't be paying more than a year or two of interest), then over the course of many months of manufactured spend run up your credit card balances and using the manufactured spend to make early mortgage payments (you'd need a mortgage that doesn't penalize these) instead of paying off the credit cards. You'd only make the minimum payments on your credit cards, so you'd be paying interest on those balances.
Then, after fully paying off your mortgage (or paying it off up to your state's homestead exemption, if applicable), declare bankruptcy and have the credit card debt discharged.
You'll then have converted debt into wealth. You could even sell the house and collect the cash once you've exited bankruptcy.
Obviously this is just a version of "manufacture spend and flee the country," but this assumes you'd like to remain in the country within reach of US courts.
Obvious pitfalls:
1. Ruining your credit for years
2. Fraud charges since you didn't intend to repay the credit card debt?
3. Wage garnishment in bankruptcy court?
4. Homes are expensive to own and maintain, property taxes, etc.
So, while I would never do this – and no one else should either! – it does seem technically feasible to me. I know I can count on the community to explain why it's not.
#3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold, Will never by anything with airlines
Posts: 287
I think the creditors would be able to show the bankruptcy is fraudulent and can petition the bankruptcy court to not discharge the loans - so, you'd have an outstanding judgment anyways....not a bankruptcy lawyer, but I know the trustees are pretty good and will see through it.
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: UA 1K; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Diamond; CCarlson Elite
Posts: 641
There's nothing structural wrong with OP's proposal, but it's just not really that feasible. The only people who have the level of credit required to do something like this are the same people who are incentivized against it, ie, lots of property, standing in the community, that kinda stuff.
Honestly; the whole "buy a house" thing is prolly just too hard. If OP's tactic is attractive to you, there's easier ways....
#7
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MGM
Programs: United Silver, PC Plat/Amb, HH Dmnd
Posts: 805
On a less grand and/or larcenous scale, how about the idea of buying a smaller house and paying for it with the cashed out "float" from your MS activities. Many of us have combined CLs that are well over 6 figures, so its technically feasible. At least until some factor of the game changed.
Still a really terrible idea, but I thought it was what the OP might be suggesting based on the thread title.
Andyandy
Still a really terrible idea, but I thought it was what the OP might be suggesting based on the thread title.
Andyandy
#8
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 69
It had occurred to me that an early-20s college graduate with a high amount of student loans and a good credit rating might try something similar, transforming non-dischargeable student loan debt into unsecured consumer debt, and then declaring bankruptcy, which would be off their credit history by the time they turn 30.
I would assume it would count as fraud, though, but IANAL, so I honestly have no idea.
In terms of why it's a terrible idea, it's basically stealing.
I would assume it would count as fraud, though, but IANAL, so I honestly have no idea.
In terms of why it's a terrible idea, it's basically stealing.
#9
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 751
Let's theoretically examine this, which you should NOT do since it is stealing. I think it would be pretty obvious that you are using CC to buy cash equivalents which you are then using to pay mortgage/student debt. The only way to get around this would be to mask it by money laundering i.e. funneling through several accounts so as to make it difficult to trace that the money came from cash equivalents originally...
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New England
Programs: DL PM, HH Gold, the rest come and go
Posts: 313
It had occurred to me that an early-20s college graduate with a high amount of student loans and a good credit rating might try something similar, transforming non-dischargeable student loan debt into unsecured consumer debt, and then declaring bankruptcy, which would be off their credit history by the time they turn 30.
I would assume it would count as fraud, though, but IANAL, so I honestly have no idea.
In terms of why it's a terrible idea, it's basically stealing.
I would assume it would count as fraud, though, but IANAL, so I honestly have no idea.
In terms of why it's a terrible idea, it's basically stealing.
Of course I pay off my credit cards every month, but my point is if something happened that made me declare bankruptcy, I'll have converted my student loans into unprotected debt.
#14
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Warm, sunny Florida
Posts: 251
It's an interesting concept, especially given those with student loans in the 6 figure range. I'd consider it if I had enough CL with Citi or Barclays or some other bank I could care less about. What would Chase do if you were to file for bankruptcy with their cards in good standing? Would they shut you down? It's an interesting concept but too shady for my blood.