Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Nov 25, 2014, 7:47 pm
#1291
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 58
"There is a chance that a store will submit a suspicious activity report (SAR) on you, and the government will likely start looking into your transactions. SARs are a hassle and should be avoided, but they are not that big of a deal if you find out a SAR was written on you. Worst case scenario, the government will look into your finances, ask you some questions, and you will have all of your receipts and transactions to prove that what you are doing is legal."
Nov 25, 2014, 10:23 pm
#1292
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1
How can I use a Safeway gift card besides grocery?
Nov 26, 2014, 10:37 am
#1293
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,164
Is this what you were referring to, ninim2200?
"There is a chance that a store will submit a suspicious activity report (SAR) on you, and the government will likely start looking into your transactions. SARs are a hassle and should be avoided, but they are not that big of a deal if you find out a SAR was written on you. Worst case scenario, the government will look into your finances, ask you some questions, and you will have all of your receipts and transactions to prove that what you are doing is legal."
"There is a chance that a store will submit a suspicious activity report (SAR) on you, and the government will likely start looking into your transactions. SARs are a hassle and should be avoided, but they are not that big of a deal if you find out a SAR was written on you. Worst case scenario, the government will look into your finances, ask you some questions, and you will have all of your receipts and transactions to prove that what you are doing is legal."
Some people are doing 40-50k MS a month, I think its wise to document all this in case you are ever asked by the government about your activities.
an audit from the IRS might trigger a check into your bank accounts, if you are depositing cash in your banks, you probably want to explain where that money came from and where it went.
Saving a couple of boxes of used GC and receipts won't hurt anyone.
Nov 27, 2014, 9:21 am
#1295
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 215
You could buy a Target or Amazon gift card with it - some other store that you usually patronize. If your Safeway GC is worth a larger amount, you could try to buy an Amex or Visa Gift Card. Often Safeway runs promos where you get a $10 grocery coupon when purchasing an Amex, Visa or MC gift card. That would cover your fee.
Nov 27, 2014, 10:36 am
#1296
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
IME, I have not yet been questioned by any of my banks regarding MOs and cash I deposit regularly. I have a small business checking account(s) with these banks and they know I sell on ebay and amazon so that probably helps a lot especially those times when free P2P with AP was still around since it showed proof of money coming in from the jungle.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is illegal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is illegal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
Nov 28, 2014, 2:20 am
#1297
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 23
IME, I have not yet been questioned by any of my banks regarding MOs and cash I deposit regularly. I have a small business checking account(s) with these banks and they know I sell on ebay and amazon so that probably helps a lot especially those times when free P2P with AP was still around since it showed proof of money coming in from the jungle.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is illegal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is illegal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
Nov 28, 2014, 6:28 am
#1298
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
IME, I have not yet been questioned by any of my banks regarding MOs and cash I deposit regularly. I have a small business checking account(s) with these banks and they know I sell on ebay and amazon so that probably helps a lot especially those times when free P2P with AP was still around since it showed proof of money coming in from the jungle.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is (il)legal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
overall, relationship with my banks play a major factor. I've read a lot of anecdotes where people told the truth and mentioned about earning CB/miles/points and their banks didn't like it, for whatever reasons so they close client's account. therefore, it doesn't mean that even if what we're doing is (il)legal, it still depends on the banks we're dealing with and if they believe what you tell them. as much as banks have to know their clients, we, as customers, should also learn how to 'feel/read' bank personnel we deal with.
Nov 29, 2014, 10:28 pm
#1301
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 25
New to the forum, just absorbing all of this for right now...
However, I could not resist replying to this as my first post. I cringed while reading this. I live in Chicago and have been a branch manager of a national bank for the last 6 years. I have never heard of or could fathom a reason for a bank employee to question why you are depositing so many money orders. In my 6 years at the bank I have never been pushed by a risk manager or compliance department regarding money order / cashier's check (negotiable instrument) deposits, and this includes a client who has at least 9 accounts that he deposits over 20K in money orders and cashier's checks per month. Granted he owns a lot of rental properties but no one from compliance knows that.
I am curious to hear about anyone's experience running into this and I would be more than happy to throw in my two cents.
However, I could not resist replying to this as my first post. I cringed while reading this. I live in Chicago and have been a branch manager of a national bank for the last 6 years. I have never heard of or could fathom a reason for a bank employee to question why you are depositing so many money orders. In my 6 years at the bank I have never been pushed by a risk manager or compliance department regarding money order / cashier's check (negotiable instrument) deposits, and this includes a client who has at least 9 accounts that he deposits over 20K in money orders and cashier's checks per month. Granted he owns a lot of rental properties but no one from compliance knows that.
I am curious to hear about anyone's experience running into this and I would be more than happy to throw in my two cents.
Nov 29, 2014, 11:11 pm
#1302
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 58
I'm trying to pay Chase from my serve card and it says: "Pay Bill Return Chase credit cards". What does this mean?
Nov 30, 2014, 10:50 am
#1303
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 775
New to the forum, just absorbing all of this for right now...
However, I could not resist replying to this as my first post. I cringed while reading this. I live in Chicago and have been a branch manager of a national bank for the last 6 years. I have never heard of or could fathom a reason for a bank employee to question why you are depositing so many money orders. In my 6 years at the bank I have never been pushed by a risk manager or compliance department regarding money order / cashier's check (negotiable instrument) deposits, and this includes a client who has at least 9 accounts that he deposits over 20K in money orders and cashier's checks per month. Granted he owns a lot of rental properties but no one from compliance knows that.
I am curious to hear about anyone's experience running into this and I would be more than happy to throw in my two cents.
However, I could not resist replying to this as my first post. I cringed while reading this. I live in Chicago and have been a branch manager of a national bank for the last 6 years. I have never heard of or could fathom a reason for a bank employee to question why you are depositing so many money orders. In my 6 years at the bank I have never been pushed by a risk manager or compliance department regarding money order / cashier's check (negotiable instrument) deposits, and this includes a client who has at least 9 accounts that he deposits over 20K in money orders and cashier's checks per month. Granted he owns a lot of rental properties but no one from compliance knows that.
I am curious to hear about anyone's experience running into this and I would be more than happy to throw in my two cents.