Award tickets on Condor
Sep 16, 2011, 12:29 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
Award tickets on Condor
I have seen on several occasions that Miles & More charges three times more "taxes and fees" for an award ticket than Condor.
Just now, checking for a ticket from Frankfurt to Male: the taxes and fees on the Condor website are 105 EUR:
outbound flight
Fuel surcharge 12 €
German Aviation Tax 45 €
Taxes/commercial fees 20 €
Service charge 3 €
return flight
Fuel surcharge 12 €
Taxes/commercial fees 10 €
Service charge 3 €
Miles and more charges 315 EUR for the award ticket.
Does anyone know why M&M charges such high taxes and fees? Probably they make us pay higher fuel surcharges? I have not find any information about additional charges on their website.
Just now, checking for a ticket from Frankfurt to Male: the taxes and fees on the Condor website are 105 EUR:
outbound flight
Fuel surcharge 12 €
German Aviation Tax 45 €
Taxes/commercial fees 20 €
Service charge 3 €
return flight
Fuel surcharge 12 €
Taxes/commercial fees 10 €
Service charge 3 €
Miles and more charges 315 EUR for the award ticket.
Does anyone know why M&M charges such high taxes and fees? Probably they make us pay higher fuel surcharges? I have not find any information about additional charges on their website.
Sep 17, 2011, 8:30 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MUC, NAG
Programs: M&M FTL, A3 Gold, IHG Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 222
Sep 19, 2011, 3:18 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
Yes, they seem to calculate higher YQ than the 24 EUR that Condor charges on paid tickets. I do not want to start a discussion about the fact that many airlines charge money for their award tickets, I think we all agree that this is pure devaluation of miles. But they are actually charging higher fuel surcharges than the airline itself 
I do not really know on which basis they are doing this. Their T&C clearly state that taxes and fuel surcharges need to be paid in cash on top of the miles, but the T&C do not say that Miles & More is actually deciding by itself how high the "fuel surcharges" are...
So on top of the 60000 miles and no companion award, they put 220 EUR in their pocket that are not included in the taxes and surcharges of the airline! I already knew Condor awards were not worth the miles but this is really really not worth the miles!
It is just a shame they have a lot of destinations not served by LH.
I do not really know on which basis they are doing this. Their T&C clearly state that taxes and fuel surcharges need to be paid in cash on top of the miles, but the T&C do not say that Miles & More is actually deciding by itself how high the "fuel surcharges" are...
So on top of the 60000 miles and no companion award, they put 220 EUR in their pocket that are not included in the taxes and surcharges of the airline! I already knew Condor awards were not worth the miles but this is really really not worth the miles!
It is just a shame they have a lot of destinations not served by LH.
Sep 19, 2011, 8:29 am
#4
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,321
I would ask them to reprice the ticket again... if you make a regular booking with VC (validating carrier) as LH on DE fares the regular YQ is charged
Code:
FXP/R,VC-LH
01 TEST/OLIVER
LAST TKT DTE 22SEP11 - SEE ADV PURCHASE
------------------------------------------------------------
AL FLGT BK T DATE TIME FARE BASIS NVB NVA BG
FRA
MLE DE 6326 B B 05NOV 2015 BDEM 05NOV05NOV 20
FRA DE 6327 B B 13NOV 1135 BDEM 13NOV13NOV 20
EUR 1558.00 05NOV11FRA DE MLE1136.99DE FRA1136.99NUC
2273.98END ROE0.685142
EUR 24.00YQ XT EUR 29.09RA EUR 6.43DE EUR 15.01BQ
EUR 45.00OY
EUR 50.53XT
EUR 1677.53
BG CXR: DE/DE
Sep 19, 2011, 11:28 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
Thanks Oliver. Is this valid for award flights as well? While buying a paid ticket the taxes are like in your overview but the Miles and More people keep on coming with the 350 EUR taxes and fees. Maybe I just did not talk to the right agents then, I will give it another try.
Sep 19, 2011, 11:21 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,941
I am still surprised that nobody is considering legal action against this airline street robbery. I am pretty sure that the whole practice of fuel surcharges will not find many fans amonst European judges. If German railways will raise fares soon because energy costs went up - no fuel surcharge there - why can't airlines do the same?
I know, this was discussed elsewhere before, but I am still puzzled.
I know, this was discussed elsewhere before, but I am still puzzled.
Sep 20, 2011, 4:51 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
They won't do it. I have talked to several people:
- e-mail: treat me like stupid, start explaining me the concept of taxes and fees and never answer my question
- senator service: also treat me like stupid, and insist the taxes they have in their system are correct
- online chat: they are stupid themselves and have not managed to explain me more than the fact that Condor and Miles and More are not the same.
So I drop the Condor idea, for that price it is really not worth! On top of that, they do not even have Companion Awards.
- e-mail: treat me like stupid, start explaining me the concept of taxes and fees and never answer my question
- senator service: also treat me like stupid, and insist the taxes they have in their system are correct
- online chat: they are stupid themselves and have not managed to explain me more than the fact that Condor and Miles and More are not the same.
So I drop the Condor idea, for that price it is really not worth! On top of that, they do not even have Companion Awards.
Sep 20, 2011, 1:12 pm
#9
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NUE,MUC,INN,FDH
Programs: QF LTG, LH LT-FTL (HON till 02/25), AB-G†
Posts: 2,078
They won't do it. I have talked to several people:
- e-mail: treat me like stupid, start explaining me the concept of taxes and fees and never answer my question
- senator service: also treat me like stupid, and insist the taxes they have in their system are correct
- online chat: they are stupid themselves and have not managed to explain me more than the fact that Condor and Miles and More are not the same.
So I drop the Condor idea, for that price it is really not worth! On top of that, they do not even have Companion Awards.
- e-mail: treat me like stupid, start explaining me the concept of taxes and fees and never answer my question
- senator service: also treat me like stupid, and insist the taxes they have in their system are correct
- online chat: they are stupid themselves and have not managed to explain me more than the fact that Condor and Miles and More are not the same.
So I drop the Condor idea, for that price it is really not worth! On top of that, they do not even have Companion Awards.
Sep 21, 2011, 3:00 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
If M&M had charged the correct taxes (115 EUR pp instead of 350 EUR) I thought it could be worth it. Otherwise not, of course.
Sep 21, 2011, 4:50 am
#11
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NUE,MUC,INN,FDH
Programs: QF LTG, LH LT-FTL (HON till 02/25), AB-G†
Posts: 2,078
I made worse experiences with other carriers as well but indeed, I try to avoid Condor. Unfortunately this is not too easy since the only alternatives for holiday destinations such as MLE are OS (few flights so very few award tickets) and Edelweiss Air through LX.
If M&M had charged the correct taxes (115 EUR pp instead of 350 EUR) I thought it could be worth it. Otherwise not, of course.
If M&M had charged the correct taxes (115 EUR pp instead of 350 EUR) I thought it could be worth it. Otherwise not, of course.
Usually I accept weird routings to go to these destinations, just because I want to avoid those holiday airlines.
Sep 21, 2011, 4:10 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: BRU
Programs: LH (SEN), IHG (Plat Amb)
Posts: 505
Of course. I also prefer OS over DE. On top of the better quality flight, you have the companion award ánd lounge access! With DE you have nothing. Problem is that there is no availability for the dates I can travel.
Sep 21, 2011, 4:38 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,756
In defence of condor
Condor are not so bad as a holiday airline. I have flown them a couple of times to Gran Canaria, and they are definately better than UK holiday airlines. In my experience they have been reliable, with friendly service and offer a free meal that was good (better than LH on long distance EU routes). I would certainly rank them above Air Berlin and Tuifly.
However, given the relatively cheap prices I don't think they are a good use of miles.
However, given the relatively cheap prices I don't think they are a good use of miles.
Oct 17, 2011, 3:38 am
#14
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 20
I am currently having a discussion with Miles and More as well regarding this.
Miles and More insist they can charge whatever fees and taxes they want, and all this is according to their terms and conditions.
They write following
"For full-fare tickets, there are occasional route or tariff specific offers whereby the charges are reduced or even waived and Lufthansa or our partners carry the costs of the taxes and fees. Unfortunately, this type of exception for special tariffs cannot be applied to award tickets.
Mr xxxx, we do care and customer satisfaction is an important issue with us, but please understand that our Terms and Conditions of Membership must be upheld."
I still do not agree with Miles and More charging 300 eur more for an award ticket than the airline itself. And this has nothing to do with promotional fares (for the very cheap LH flights for example, LH indeed lowers the fuel surchage so that the award ticket sometimes costs more than a paid low-fare ticket). In this case the fuel surcharge of Condor has simply been reduced from 100+ EUR to 12 EUR per segment. So I think Miles and More should charge the same taxes and fees as for a regular booking.
Any ideas on how to take this further on with Miles and More? Or should I just let it go?
Miles and More insist they can charge whatever fees and taxes they want, and all this is according to their terms and conditions.
They write following
"For full-fare tickets, there are occasional route or tariff specific offers whereby the charges are reduced or even waived and Lufthansa or our partners carry the costs of the taxes and fees. Unfortunately, this type of exception for special tariffs cannot be applied to award tickets.
Mr xxxx, we do care and customer satisfaction is an important issue with us, but please understand that our Terms and Conditions of Membership must be upheld."
I still do not agree with Miles and More charging 300 eur more for an award ticket than the airline itself. And this has nothing to do with promotional fares (for the very cheap LH flights for example, LH indeed lowers the fuel surchage so that the award ticket sometimes costs more than a paid low-fare ticket). In this case the fuel surcharge of Condor has simply been reduced from 100+ EUR to 12 EUR per segment. So I think Miles and More should charge the same taxes and fees as for a regular booking.
Any ideas on how to take this further on with Miles and More? Or should I just let it go?