redleader74

I’ve been thinking much about the sustainability of the “Japanese way” ever since our first trip there last year as tourists. Coming from a major metro area of the U.S., with all the baggage that that assumes, it was damn near euphoric to experience all the cleanliness, orderliness, politeness, and safety of Japan, almost without exception. Riding on the metro everyone is polite, talk in hushed tones, and no one has their feet up on the seats or hog up multiple seats. People pick up after themselves, throw away their trash. I could go on and on about this. I concluded then, as most other people have, that is that this is largely a product of their cultural homogeneity and exclusivity. Everyone is raised a certain way and to do things a certain way. There’s no conflicting or competing way of doing things differently. Even the homeless encampments were tidy with shoes neatly lined up outside the tents/cardboard shelters and its occupants sweeping up around outside with makeshift brooms. I mean, can you possibly imagine random beer vending machines on street corners in downtown Los Angeles, New York, or San Francisco? They would either disappear on the first night they’re placed out there, or would be broken into, or just destroyed simply for pleasure.

Now I may be making broad blanket statements based on one tiny little trip and sure there was traffic, congestion, lines, and the like, but it was all still in stark contrast with what I experience here back home. But for many of the reasons stated in this thread, I don’t think I could see myself living and working there indefinitely. I don’t think I could not see myself raising children/family there, no matter how safe it is. It’s a catch 22, the very reasons why I love it there are the same reasons why its not going to last. Either they will implode or they will open the floodgates for everyone and all the things we enjoy about Japan will soon disappear.

jib71

Yup. Homeless folk who take off their shoes before entering their cardboard homes will be the downfall of Japan. You read it here first.

evergrn

Man, that would seem extremely hard on the kids. If you're aiming for Sophia or ICU, though, you wouldn't have to do juku, right? And isn't it true that vast majority of int'l school grads end up advancing to US/UK universities?

evergrn

mrploddy: thanks for explaining the pension situation. Seems like the UK pension is a great deal. Can you stay in Jpn and still receive UK pension payout? If so, do you know if this money will be subject to Japanese taxation?

mjm

Incredibly hard on them. I pity them because that rigor precludes a normal childhood.

The vast majority of non-Japanese advance to US/UK schools yes. And within that the vast majority is to US schools. Sophia or ICU are likely not to need a Juku experience true, but why go to one of those if you are able to get into a better US school? The international schools here turn out some quite qualified candidates. Sophia and ICU are sort of "I cannot really imagine leaving Japan despite my having become largely international in HS" sort of places. But of the Japanese HS grads, there is a large percentage that go into the Japanese university system. The concept there is that if you intend to work in Japan going to a Japanese university makes the process of entering a company a billion times easier.

mrploddy

As far as the UK pension goes - if you have paid in you can claim it.

When it comes to taxation - it depends on your residential status. Japanese TAX residency is different to IMMIGRATION residency.

Up to 5 years - Only income REMITTED to or made in Japan is taxable
5years + - Worldwide income is taxable

As for my own situation due to wanting my daughter to experience the UK school system to master English at a place OTHER than Japan we will be going back to the UK in 2 - 3 years -probably after the Tokyo Olympics. There is also the issue of a reasonably substatial inheritance I am going to get from a relative - if I am in Japan when they die inheritiance tax will cost me DOUBLE what it would in the UK and let's say the difference would pay for quite a few first class returns between Japan and the UK. Hence it's in my best interests to be living in the UK when something happens to them. At some point we will then come back to Japan again.

evergrn

yikes, lots to think about.

It just seems like, if we moved permanently to Jpn with all the assets and savings we have in the US, it's inevitable that we will be double-taxed on many things. Such as rental income from US property, any time we want to bring any money over, etc. In US, we have retirement account called Roth IRA where you stash away post-tax money and invest it, let it grow, and you take it out completely tax-free for retirement. It would really suck if Jpn taxes me to bring that money over to Jpn when I'm in my 60's.

And then I found this gem:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/communi.../#.WbiwD7KGPIU

evergrn

You may be on to something with your theory.

But I'm of the opinion that things won't change much if they "open the floodgates" as in immigration floodgate. I bet half the staff at Niseko Hilton are foreigners. Their faces, accents and language skills aside, their level of courtesy and professionalism is right on par with Japanese staff.

But if they continue to stall on immigration policy, then I think you are right that Jpn will implode. 5khours is probably right that the implosion will be a gradual process. But without infusion of more workers and taxpayers, the toll on young and middle-aged Japanese will reach a breaking point.

LapLap

We're in the same position but I knew nothing about this.
Nevertheless, for us, the idea of my husband and kid NOT being in Japan at the time their relative passes (that's if he's given the opportunity to make it back) is unthinkable. So at least we know this will be the outcome - and can take it on the chin, hopefully with some grace.

Still, at least this is in the age of Skype and FaceTime. Should soften the siuiation for those who are economically obliged to stay away but actually give an unchi.

The Japan Times article about 2017 reform laws is certainly sobering. Will take me some time to digest the implications.

We have no interest in having our daughter educated in Japan. She's extremely active (never still) and has become an enthusiastic gymnast.
She's not in an elite stream, so her four after school sessions a week, plus the swimming classes, are for recreation and pleasure only. I can't begin to envision how this level of physical activity could be sustained alongside cram school obligations. Gymnastics replaces juku, seems to have a beneficial effect on her school work also.

evergrn

Problem with us is that our girls are not assimilating well in US, even though they were born and raised in US for crying out loud. They identify strongly with Japanese culture/language and are always begging to move there. It's the parents' fault. Our attitude and choices rub off on them, and this is stunting them here. We've gotta do something. But the wife wants to move to Jpn also. I myself have many hesitations about moving there. I like my current job, career. But I'm getting more and more jaded about people's self-entitlement and aggressiveness here. This is making me obsessed about wanting my kids to grow up humble and considerate above all else.

In so many ways, Jpn education system sucks and is totally counterproductive. Bukatsu, juku, jouge kankei, entrance exams. Yet we can't seem to reach the seemingly rationale conclusion that you have made with regards to education, because our mindset is tethered to Jpn.

mrploddy

https://www.pwc.com/jp/en/taxnews-in...0170414-en.pdf

Is the relative in the UK or Japan ?. If the relative is in Japan and all their assets are in Japan then it's unlimited inheritance.

For us the issue is the relative is in a carehome in the UK so basically if I have a juminhou in Japan on the date of their death I'm fully liable. It's also complicated by the new rules which impose a 5 year rule AFTER moving if you have lived in Japan for I think it's 10 years or more.

So it kinda makes sense on all angles to move back after the Olympics as September 2020 is when primary school applications will open for my daughter and also for the sake of this relative.

Oh I should add that's what the determination is for inheritance tax - if you have a juminhou record on the actual date of death - that's what my local tax office advised me.

mjm

You gt to start playing with the 2555. It allows 100,000 of overseas income to be deducted. That plus your deductions in the US and I bet you would be paying very little if anything in US taxes.

LapLap

Husband (and daughter - for now*) Japanese, living in UK.
Relative is in 70s, Japanese and lives in Japan. Not a chance in heck he'd be allowed to move to the UK - not that he'd ever want to.

Thank you very much for the link. This clarifies our position, however it will take me quite a few reads to assimilate it!

*whether our daughter wishes to remain Japanese as an adult is for her to eventually decide.

mrploddy

Ouch you'll have fun dealing with the local Zeimusho then when that unfortunate time comes . At least you won't have to deal with the HMRC too as UK Inheritance tax is only on UK based assets.

If I'm unfortunate enough for said relative to die whilst still living here I'm gonna have to deal with the tax authorities of 2 countries and somehow avoid having a huge tax bill to pay to Japan.

Japan lets you deduct taxes for taxes paid overseas so I'm hoping if that situation ever arises I can work out a deal where my UK solicitor would pay HMRC their due and then send over the balance of what is due to Japan rather than pay it ALL then get a refund back.

msp3

>telling another country what to do

Racist! Check your cis white colonial privilege. Why don't you go ruin your own country instead? Oh wait-