joykid

I see, I will try to purchase it at travel agent JTB here then, can use credit cards and earn points at least
I have a dilemma here, so we will fly and arrive at Sapporo on 4/2, then go to Hakodate on same day, means that the Hokkaido RailPass will start to be in effect on 4/2. To save money, if we buy the 3 days version, we only can use it until 2/4. And we heard that Hakodate has their own tram that we cannot use this railpass on. We will go back to Sapporo on 2/4 and stay there until we go back to Tokyo on 2/6. that’s mean if we buy the Hokkaido Rail Pass 3 days, we only can use it to cover the train fee Hakodate-Sapporo roundtrip only and have to pay out of own pocket for 2 days in Sapporo, or we just get the 5 days pass….do you think is better?
Is Asahikawa worth to visit on early April?

What is "TTA" by the way?

abmj-jr

The Hakodate tram is quite reasonable on a ride-by-ride basis but I got - and recommend - an all day pass. Many hotels have it, as do most convenience stores and other retail establishments. My hotel did not have any but there was a 7-11 across the street that did. The hotel sent me there. You can also get one at Hakodate Station. When you get a tram pass it comes with a little map booklet that shows the various routes and stops in relation to the major tourist sites.

I think you would still save money if you only use the 3-day Rail Pass to go from Chitose to Hakodate and from Hakodate to Sapporo. (Note: Chitose and Sapporo are not the same stop. They are several miles apart.) The total out-of-pocket fare for those two trips is over 16,000 yen and the Pass costs 15,430 yen. If you add in other rail trips during that time it will save you even more.

I don't think a Rail Pass will help you in Sapporo unless you plan some day trips outside the city. I never used mine while in Sapporo, I just used trams, cabs and walked. Sapporo has a prepaid card like the Suica, called Kitaca. It is only usable in and around Sapporo but not in Hakodate. You might want to get one for travel on local trains, subways and buses. It wasn't available the last time I was there so I just paid cash.

Asahikawa in April will be cool but not frigid. The problem with that city is that there is really nothing to see or do there. It is the gateway city to some really spectacular national parks up in the nearby mountains, which is why I stayed there a couple of days. Asahikawa has a famous zoo and is known for their own varieties of ramen but that is about all I know. I don't see it as a destination in itself. Just a starting point to visit the mountains which will still be locked in winter snow in early April.

joykid

Thanks all, yes I think we won’t be doing any hotsprings in Hokkaido, maybe just stop by at Noboribetsu to do light hike and sightseeing only.
We will do hotsprings in Hakone since our hotel for a night in Hakone has an outdoor and indoor hotsprings, so that would be good.
“En route, you can get a taste of the bullet train from Shinagawa to Odawara” ===> I heard that the Odakyu “Romance car” is better since they have a “see through” observation deck to see the scenery on the way to hakone? Can someone please confirm.
Here’s what I found on Odakyu Romance Car:
http://www.odakyu.jp/english/romancecar/
http://www.odakyu.jp/english/romance...1.html#link-01

Our hotel in Hakone is located near the Hakone-Yumoto Station.
Romance Car Train Timetable Shinjuku- Hakone-Yumoto and vice versa: Limited express surcharge + normal fare (890 yen + 1,190 yen) Total 2,080 yen.

So here is our plan so far:
3/31 Arrived at HND airport at around 5:15 a.m., after baggage claim and custom clearance maybe will be out around 6 a.m. the latest. Then take a train to Shinjuku and from Shinjuku will catch the first Odakyu train to Hakone that depart at 0700 and arrive in Hakone-Yumoto station at 08:40 a.m.
After arrived at station, will go to hotel, maybe can’t early check-in so we will just put our luggage there, from Hakone Yumoto station to our hotel is 15 mins by bus, last bus going to hotel is 6 p.m.
So we will have time from 10 am to 5 pm to explore Hakone and its surroundings.
We only stay for a night so we plan to go back to Tokyo tomorrow, 4/1, thinking of going back at noon so can go to Ueno to see cherry blossom from noon to nighttime before fly to Sapporo next morning.
In your opinion, can we follow this plan? http://www.odakyu.jp/english/course/hakone/
Do you think it would be enough to cover this in one day from 10am to 5 pm, I wonder if we can cover Gora, Owakudani, etc as it’s been lay out on below plan if we only have time from 10 am to 5 pm. If not enough, then can you please give some idea of the plan that we can do ? most important thing we wanna see owakudani to taste the black eggs, take a cruise in pirate ship, and my mom really wants to see Mt. Fuji, just get a clear view of Mt. Fuji from far or around Lake Ashi is ok, it would make her dream come true.

And which one you think is better and more money saver, buy a 2 days of Hakone Free Pass (http://www.odakyu.jp/english/deels/freepass/hakone/) or just pay as we go, if consider we follow the plan in odakyu website above for 1 day sightseeing trip in Hakone, we will only maximize the use of the Hakone Pass on first day and on second day we just have time from morning to noon before we go back to Tokyo, so maybe cannot go really far to sightseeing around Hakone. FYI we will only bring two 21” carry-on luggages. Also, does the Hakone Pass covers Hakone Loop too? it would be great if it does, since as I mentioned I will be going with my mom who is 60 yrs old and she is very healthy just it’s hard sometimes for her if walk for long period of time, she is very active but I don’t want to make her overdo it, maybe a balance of walk-rest-walk-rest, so Hakone loop is a great idea, thank you for mentioning that.

Thanks again and look forward for your advice and suggestions. Really appreciate it.

joykid

I guess we will pass Asahikawa, since we are not interested to go there to see zoo lol. How about other interesting cities nearby Sapporo besides Otaru?
Thanks for the suggestion on the all day pass for Hakodate tram, I think it’s very convenient and I will get it when I stay in Hakodate for 2 days on 4/2 and 4/3.
I see, so the 3 days Hokkaido pass is better and we already got back the value just by using it for Minami Chitose – Hakodate and then Hakodate – Sapporo. By the way, we also plan to go to Otaru while we are on Sapporo, is the ticket price expensive for Sapporo-Otaru roundtrip? and then we have to go back to the Chitose airport on the last day, do you think if by adding Sapporo-Otaru roundtrip and then Sapporo-Chitose is worth it and cheaper to buy 5 days pass? But I heard in Sapporo mostly people will take bus to go anywhere in there since it’s more coverage and convenient.

emma69

Not sure if the Romance Car requires advanced reservations but if it does I would give yourself more time to make the train than that, in case of plane delays, or customs delays etc. You might be better with a 'walk up' service on another line if they are 'reservation only'.

You might be able to leave your bags at the station in a locker, rather than going out of your way to the hotel (in addition to the 30 mins travel time, you might also have to wait for 15-20 min at each end for the bus).

Most of what you have mentioned (pirate ship, eggs, Mt Fuji) is on the Hakone loop, and you have to pretty much do it to hit those things. It is covered by the 'free pass'. The area covered travel wise is huge, much bigger than it appears on a map. There isn't much walking you can opt to do instead, perhaps between one station and another on the train part, but I don't think they are all walkable due to the steepness of the railway / lack of paths (but not on the funicular, cable car or boat portions, nor the bus part after the boat).

abmj-jr

Probably not. JR runs the Hakodate Line to Otaru for 640 yen each way. There is also an airport express that stops at Otaru and gets there a little faster for 950 yen. That is pretty cheap. The airport rapid train back to Minami-Chitose is a little over 1,100 yen, also pretty cheap. I don't think they total enough to get value from the 5-day Pass.

You can see train times and fares on Hyperdia:

http://www.hyperdia.com/en/

joykid

Hyperdia is very handy, thanks! how's it compare with Jorudan? which one is more accurate and you more prefer?
So the 3 days pass is about 15,000 yen and 5 days is 20,000 yen, difference of 5,000 yen.
Sapporo to Otaru is 640 yen one way so 1,280 yen round trip, or 1,900 yen if using the express. Plus, the train back to Chitose is 1,100 yen. So total would be around 3,000 yen if pay as we go, can save 2,000 yen than buying 5 days pass!! It's awesome! thanks a lot!
On side note, 5 days option would be 2,000 yen more expensive but can pay by credit card through travel agent here and get points, verse pay as you go is cheaper but have to be cash when buy it in Japan.

Btw which one you think is better to go to Hakone, take Odakyu Romance car from Shinjuku to Hakone yumoto station or Shinkansen Shinjuku - Odawara?

evergrn

That depends on different factors.

The fastest, most convenient way from HND is to take Keikyu to Shinagawa, then hop on the bullet train to Odawara, then Hakone Tozan train up to Yumoto.

This will also be your one chance to ride the bullet train. Don't you want that experience?

If you want to spend less, then Romance Car would be cheaper.

Personally, I'd take the bullet train from Shinagawa on the way in, take the Romance Car on the way back.

As far as view of Mt.Fuji goes, you may or may not catch a glimpse from either Romance Car or from bullet train. On a clear day, the obstructed view of Mt.Fuji can be appear in short spurts from time to time from either train. But it's nothing the like you'd get from Hakone's Owakudani or from the bullet train further west once you get into Shizuoka prefecture.

abmj-jr

I think Hyperdia and Jorudan give pretty much the same information. Whichever one you feel most comfortable with will work fine. I always use Hyperdia.

I have no opinion on the various routes to Hakone. I never go there.

evergrn

If you manage to catch the 6am Keikyu train to Shinagawa, then you'll get to Yumoto at 7.25a. If you catch the 6.25am Keikyu train, then you'll get to Yumoto at 8.06a. Once you get to Yumoto, yes you should take a taxi to go drop off your bags and then return to Yumoto station. I strongly suggest you head up to Hakone Open Air Museum, but they don't open till probably 9a or 10a. So then kill some time by either getting a bite somewhere around Yumoto station or you can decide to stop in for tea/snack at Miyanoshita's historic Fujiya hotel. Anyways, that, the Open Air Museum, Owakudani... I think that should just about do it for you. I think you'll be exhausted by 4pm with the jet lag from US. Call it a day a bit early and go back to the hotel right at check-in time and enjoy the hot springs. That will just about give you the essentials of a Hakone experience. I know others may disagree, but I personally don't feel it's necessary to do the whole loop thing, especially when your schedule's tight. Owakundani's as good as any Mt.Fuji vantage point as you'll get within Hakone. But of course the weather has to cooperate. If you can't see Mt.Fuji on the first day, then try again the next day. If you manage to see Mr.Fuji the first day and you've done Owakudani, Open Air Museum, thoroughly enjoyed the hot spring and all that, then I'd just head straight to Tokyo upon check-out the next day.

joykid

So the so-called "hakone loop" is actually refers to the destinations surrounding the Hakone, isn't it.....it does not refer to any special train or bus. Now I see.

"If you manage to catch the 6am Keikyu train to Shinagawa, then you'll get to Yumoto at 7.25a. If you catch the 6.25am Keikyu train, then you'll get to Yumoto at 8.06a." ===> that's sounds awesome if we can get to Yumoto earlier! but does Keikyu train operate from Shinagawa to Yumoto? from what I know so far, the way to get to Yumoto is by Odakyu train or by Shinkansen (stop at Odawara and take local train to Yumoto). How much does it cost from Shinagawa to Yumoto by Keikyu train? if you can please share the link or website that you get the timetable/schedule from, I really appreciate.

So I got Open Air museum and Owakudani for sure. I didn’t know about Miyanoshita's historic Fujiya hotel! It looks interesting, but kinda pricey, isn't it? but I guess maybe for tea or breakfast experience it would be worth it.
How about Gora, Chokoku no mori, Togendai-ko, Sounzan...are they worth to visit?

evergrn

I use http://transit.loco.yahoo.co.jp to look up trains. But it's all Jpanese. For English speakers, you'd probably have to use hyperdia. I just like yahoo because you have the ability to designate how much slack you want to allow at each train change. Hyperdia just spits out schedule based on anything over minimal transit time. But anyways...

No, Keikyu does not go to Hakone Yumoto. You take Keikyu to Shinagawa, then change to bullet train to go to Odawara, then change to Hakone Tozan train from there which takes you to Yumoto. If you take the 6.02am Keikyu train, then you'll have 13min at Shinagawa to change to 6.34a bullet train, then 13min at Odawara to change to Tozan train departing 7.14a which gets you into Yumoto by 7.29a. (if that's too tight at Shinagawa, then the next bullet train is 6.40a... there's a bullet train departing all the time)

I don't know if Fujiya Hotel is worth it. I'm just pointing out a possible place to kill time. But I've taken people there, and some have loved it. It's historic, there's a decent bakery out near the car entrance to the hotel. There's a lounge by the lobby where you can order tea and small plate of food. The draw of the place is their garden which you can walk through. The hotel is open all the time, but check the hours for all these places that I'm telling you about.

Chokoku-no-mori is the Open Air Museum in Japnese, but it's also the name of the train stop where you get off to go to that museum. I think you're throwing out bunch of train/ropeway station names here. There's nothing special at any of those places. Gora is a bit of a junction point where you change from the train to cable car, and there're some gifts shops and places to eat, etc. There's nothing in Sounzan or Togendai. Togendai is just the ropeway terminus and you catch the ship there.

abmj-jr

Definitely a weakness in Hyperdia. I usually run a trip twice. Once to get the connections and again segment-by-segment to select more reasonable connection times. I'd love it if they would add an option to specify preferred minimum connection times for those of us who don't want to navigate Tokyo-eki with a 7 minute window.

joykid

I think we will take the 6.02am Keikyu train so we can be there in Yumoto around 7.29am. If we take this route and take the bullet train(shinkansen), can we pre-purchase or reserve the shinkansen ticket in advance here in US? how much does it usually cost from Shinagawa - Odawara and is there any discount for tourist/foreigners?

Sounds like Fujiya is a good place to check out, we will go there and check it out since we are interested in walking through their garden, we love beautiful Japanese serenity garden! do you know any good or recommended place to eat for lunch around Hakone area? and dinner around Yumoto station, we might want to eat dinner before we go to hotel since the dinner in the hotel is overpriced I think and we will be too tired to go out again once we got into the hotel.

Also, do you recommend Yunnesun onsen? I heard it's famous there because they have varieties of onsen like tea, wine, etc...or is there any better onsen? our hotel has onsen but we just want to explore if there is better onsen out there...we interested in outdoor/rotenburo onsen.

evergrn

I wouldn't necessarily count on being able to catch the 6.02am Keikyu train. I've flown international into HND twice now, and both times it was 30-40min from gate to Keikyu platform with checked bags and a stop at ATM, no line at passport controls. Your plane could be a few minutes late.

For fares & schedule, I'd start familiarizing yourself with Hyperdia. Anyways, I looked it up for you and it's 3050yen (fare+supplement). You can just buy the shinkansen ticket at Shinagawa Station. If you're comfortable with using the vending machine, then it shouldn't take too long at the station. But I think you'll struggle with it, so you're better off going to the JR ticket office counter. JR ticket office at Shinagawa could be zero wait or 20min wait. Although I've never bought JR tickets at HND, supposedly you can (see link below).
http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/e...ar.html#rental

Your dinner isn't included with your hotel stay? Aren't you staying at an onsen hotel/ryokan? You must've gotten the sudomari (meals not included) plan, but you should consider changing it to stay+meal. Bathing, then putting on a yukata and eating a nice dinner on hotel premises (sometimes in your own room with food being brought to you) is what the whole onsen lodging experience is about.

I'm not sure which hotel you're staying at. Hotels in Hakone have highly varying quality of onsen. I would hope your hotel has better onsen than Yunessun. Anyways, Yunessun is pretty fun imo. But how will you fit it into your plans? It's not particularly close to the train station, so you'll need to take a bus/taxi. I'd say go to Yunessun if it's raining or something on the day of arrival. If it's raining, it'll be no fun to go to the Open Air Museum or Owakudani or a lot of other places for that matter. But Yunessun will still be enjoyable. Yunessun has (had) essentially 3 sections - the first is more of a traditional onsen area where you go completely naked, the second is bathing-suit area with a large onsen pool, onsen cave and onsen water slider, the third is bathing-suit area with an onsen lap pool along with a collection of onsen tubs that are built into mountainside. I was going to go last month, but I didn't when I found out the third section is temporarily closed. It may have reopened now. I'm an onsen snob, and Yunessun just doesn't cut it in terms of pure onsen quality. But to me it still holds amusement value, and I like going there from time to time. I've also referred my gaijin friends there, and they seem to enjoy it.