Subway to shorten Narita, Haneda trips
Jul 22, 2014, 7:56 pm
#46
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One idea that comes to mind is to build a high-speed connection between the Keiyo Line and the Sobu Line somewhere around Funabashi, then run the NEX from NRT through to Maihama (Tokyo Disney), Odaiba through the Rinkai Line, and then either up the Saikyo Line to Shibuya, Shinjuku and Ikebukuro, or down this new line to HND.
Jul 23, 2014, 12:35 am
#47
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In either case, we've only got 6 years until Tokyo's population is projected to peak, and then go into precipitous decline along with the rest of Japan -- and the National Institute for Policy Studies projects that by 2023, Japan will be unable to afford even to maintain its current stock of infrastructure, much less build more.
On the upside, I suppose it is slightly more cost-effective than building another superhighway in deepest Shikoku or sprinkling tetrapods off the coast of Tohoku.
Jul 23, 2014, 1:39 am
#48
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Well, let's run some quick numbers. Cost is estimated at Y400 billion. Ridership is estimated at 28 million. Taking those at face value (which I wouldn't), and assuming JR gets a completely interest-free loan, has zero operating expenses and wants to pay off the construction cost in ten years, we get a ticket price of Y1,400 per passenger. To be competitive with the Monorail, which is Y490 a pop (and even that's generally considered expensive), they'd need to expand that period to 30 years. Alternatively, they could price like the N'EX and ask for Y3000 a throw, but then they're not going to get 28m pax/year, especially given the existing alternatives.
Also, my understanding is that the monorail will be shutdown as it is fast approaching the point where it will require significant maintenance to continue operating. A JR through line would eliminate the need for the monorail, so JR's only competition would be Keikyu (and whatever service they end up building to connect with the Tokyu lines at Kamata).
Anyway, since nearly 70 million people used HND last year, and a significant number of these passengers used rail transit, I don't think JR East is that far off the mark. Not only that, they plan to fund at least part of it themselves, so the burden won't fall completely on taxpayers.
Of all the infrastructure projects in this country, there are many more worthy of criticism than this one, IMO.
Last edited by armagebedar; Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40 pm
Jul 23, 2014, 4:56 pm
#49
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Ridership is estimated at 28 million annually, so over 10 years that would be 280 million. (FYI, there were 24 million boardings/disembarkings from the three airport monorail stations last year.) Even assuming half that number (14 million), the minimum fare under your scenario would be about 290 JPY. JR will also likely run through trains from other parts of Kanto, so it will have to fit in with their current distance-based fare system (unless they treat it like the Rinkai Line with a separate fare structure).
Also, my understanding is that the monorail will be shutdown as it is fast approaching the point where it will require significant maintenance to continue operating. A JR through line would eliminate the need for the monorail, so JR's only competition would be Keikyu (and whatever service they end up building to connect with the Tokyu lines at Kamata).
Anyway, since nearly 70 million people used HND last year, and a significant number of these passengers used rail transit, I don't think JR East is that far off the mark. Not only that, they plan to fund at least part of it themselves, so the burden won't fall completely on taxpayers.
Of all the infrastructure projects in this country, there are many more worthy of criticism than this one, IMO.
Also, my understanding is that the monorail will be shutdown as it is fast approaching the point where it will require significant maintenance to continue operating. A JR through line would eliminate the need for the monorail, so JR's only competition would be Keikyu (and whatever service they end up building to connect with the Tokyu lines at Kamata).
Anyway, since nearly 70 million people used HND last year, and a significant number of these passengers used rail transit, I don't think JR East is that far off the mark. Not only that, they plan to fund at least part of it themselves, so the burden won't fall completely on taxpayers.
Of all the infrastructure projects in this country, there are many more worthy of criticism than this one, IMO.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:10 pm
#50
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Ridership is estimated at 28 million annually, so over 10 years that would be 280 million. (FYI, there were 24 million boardings/disembarkings from the three airport monorail stations last year.) Even assuming half that number (14 million), the minimum fare under your scenario would be about 290 JPY.
And the Tokyo Monorail's impending demise is news to me, they just rolled out shiny new trains last week and, as discussed earlier on this very thread, are looking pretty seriously at splashing out Y360 billion on fixing up Hamamatsucho.
All that said, if they really could make this JR line happen for the same price, then I'd be all for it.
Jul 23, 2014, 11:39 pm
#51
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And the Tokyo Monorail's impending demise is news to me, they just rolled out shiny new trains last week and, as discussed earlier on this very thread, are looking pretty seriously at splashing out Y360 billion on fixing up Hamamatsucho.
Jul 24, 2014, 12:13 am
#52
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I might know more than you can see and am quite familiar with Tokyo. Though Kanto is growing "faster" than the rest of Japan, the population and economic growth should be considered anemic by any standard. I also am not persuaded that more efficient rail access to Haneda will reap significant economic benefits.
Jul 24, 2014, 1:13 am
#53
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I might know more than you can see and am quite familiar with Tokyo. Though Kanto is growing "faster" than the rest of Japan, the population and economic growth should be considered anemic by any standard. I also am not persuaded that more efficient rail access to Haneda will reap significant economic benefits.
And since I live here, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and help pay for the extension with my taxes and fares!
Jul 24, 2014, 4:34 am
#54
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I might know more than you can see and am quite familiar with Tokyo. Though Kanto is growing "faster" than the rest of Japan, the population and economic growth should be considered anemic by any standard. I also am not persuaded that more efficient rail access to Haneda will reap significant economic benefits.
Fair enough. I happen to disagree, I for one am not persuaded that building wider highways or rebuilding the monorail will be as effective a remedy for transport from HND as would a new JR extension.
And since I live here, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and help pay for the extension with my taxes and fares!
And since I live here, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and help pay for the extension with my taxes and fares!
Jul 28, 2014, 8:37 am
#55
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There are, or were, a few daily limited expresses from Chiba to Shinjuku and then points out the Chuo line that would go from the Chuo-Sobu (yellow) line tracks directly to the Chuo (orange) line tracks
If this were done for the N'Ex, the time to/from Shinjuku could easily be cut by 10-15 minutes.
If this were done for the N'Ex, the time to/from Shinjuku could easily be cut by 10-15 minutes.
Jul 28, 2014, 7:02 pm
#56
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JR actually used to run "Wing Express" trains from Shinjuku and points beyond to NRT via Ochanomizu and Akihabara on an infrequent basis in the 90s and 2000s (Japanese blog post here). In 2007 they even used the same E257-500 limited express trainsets as on the Chiba-bound trains (Wakashio/Sazanami/Ayame). I personally think it would be a great idea, given I live along the route 
Aug 21, 2014, 11:00 pm
#57
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JR plans 3 new train lines linking Shinjuku, Tokyo, Shin-Kiba to Haneda airport
Turns out JR now thinks building one new rail line to Haneda is just too plebeian, and now wants to build three:
Although Japanese sources indicate that this is the same line discussed above, only with connections sprouting in three directions.
JR East has announced plans to build three new train lines linking Haneda airport to stations at Tokyo, Shinjuku and Shin-kiba. The new lines will cut the travel time from Tokyo station to Haneda to just 18 minutes (from 28 minutes), and from Shinjuku to Haneda to 23 minutes (from the current 41 minutes), JR East said.
According to JR East, one line, the West Yamanote line, will travel to Haneda from Shinjuku station via Osaki. The East Yamanote line will travel from Tokyo station through a new six-kilometer underground tunnel to be built beneath Tamachi and Shinagawa. The third proposed new line will go from from Shin-kiba via Tokyo Teleport station, along the seaside route.
The total estimated cost for the new railway project is 320 billion yen, TBS reported Wednesday. Layout design and logistics planning are expected to take three years, and construction is estimated to take about seven years, meaning the new lines will not be ready in time for the 2020 Olympics.
According to JR East, one line, the West Yamanote line, will travel to Haneda from Shinjuku station via Osaki. The East Yamanote line will travel from Tokyo station through a new six-kilometer underground tunnel to be built beneath Tamachi and Shinagawa. The third proposed new line will go from from Shin-kiba via Tokyo Teleport station, along the seaside route.
The total estimated cost for the new railway project is 320 billion yen, TBS reported Wednesday. Layout design and logistics planning are expected to take three years, and construction is estimated to take about seven years, meaning the new lines will not be ready in time for the 2020 Olympics.
Aug 21, 2014, 11:45 pm
#58
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The plan to run "real JR trains" to the airport from various stations sounds nice, but the major problem is that it would require a new tunnel underneath HND, and JR thinks this can't be completed before the Olympics. They say they might have a temporary station on the north side of HND with buses running to the terminals, which would kind of kill any convenience factor of the train...
There was also an announcement this week that Tokyo Monorail is officially considering an extension to Tokyo Station.
There was also an announcement this week that Tokyo Monorail is officially considering an extension to Tokyo Station.
Aug 24, 2014, 6:18 am
#59
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No opening date has been set as the project is still in the planning stages. Construction work for the three-kilometer extension will take 10 years to complete and cost about 109.5 billion yen ($1.05 billion).
So the monorail isn't happening by 2020 either. And I can't really imagine JR deciding to do both of these, so I'm pretty sure one or the other will have to give.
Aug 24, 2014, 6:45 am
#60
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What I understand about both plans by JR East is that JR East has not gotten a regulatory approval for the plan nor the construction. What I understand is that JR East has not even submitted paper works for regulatory approval, yet. That is the reason regulatory agencies and Tokyo Metropolitan government have not made comments regarding JR East’s plan.
These JR’s plan of Haneda line by extending currently unused freight line and extending monorail from Hamamatsucho to Tokyo both will ask financial assistance from both local Tokyo government and the federal government.
Looks as JR East has made these announcement more as PR and still has very long to go to even get an approval and all the finance squared away. Just from that prospective even the plan has cleared all the hurdles, it is highly unlikely to be completed before 2020 Olympics.
It is possible that JR East knows that plans have so many hurdles to clear before the plan become reality, and JR East has decided to throw in few different plans and see if maybe one will become a reality.
These JR’s plan of Haneda line by extending currently unused freight line and extending monorail from Hamamatsucho to Tokyo both will ask financial assistance from both local Tokyo government and the federal government.
Looks as JR East has made these announcement more as PR and still has very long to go to even get an approval and all the finance squared away. Just from that prospective even the plan has cleared all the hurdles, it is highly unlikely to be completed before 2020 Olympics.
It is possible that JR East knows that plans have so many hurdles to clear before the plan become reality, and JR East has decided to throw in few different plans and see if maybe one will become a reality.