Moving to Italy
May 2, 2017, 7:29 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 163
Moving to Italy
My wife and I are seriously thinking about moving to Italy, but for only 1 year. However, we have NO clue on how to do this.
Any recommendations on websites that will help us out with finding an apartment for rent, how to go about that, work visas, etc.?
We want to live between Rome and Florence. Maybe in one of the hill towns like Orvieto.
Thanks in advance.
Any recommendations on websites that will help us out with finding an apartment for rent, how to go about that, work visas, etc.?
We want to live between Rome and Florence. Maybe in one of the hill towns like Orvieto.
Thanks in advance.
May 2, 2017, 7:53 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
There are enormous, large, expat communities in Rome and in Florence. There is a lot to do, but they can walk you through it. InterNations is an agency that helps, but I would instead go to the community and the social networks. Find a friend. Expats love to help. You can start by going to ExpatsLivinginRome.com. There are many others. Having been an expat, I can say you will be welcomed with open arms. Americans love to get to speak english when they are over there for too long.
May 2, 2017, 3:58 pm
#3
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 522
My wife and I are seriously thinking about moving to Italy, but for only 1 year. However, we have NO clue on how to do this.
Any recommendations on websites that will help us out with finding an apartment for rent, how to go about that, work visas, etc.?
We want to live between Rome and Florence. Maybe in one of the hill towns like Orvieto.
Thanks in advance.
Any recommendations on websites that will help us out with finding an apartment for rent, how to go about that, work visas, etc.?
We want to live between Rome and Florence. Maybe in one of the hill towns like Orvieto.
Thanks in advance.
Also, on the now defunct site Slow Travel, I had read many threads over the years about folks doing what you're now considering (and how exciting for you!) Those posters are now active on the Italy forum of the Slow Europe Travel website and the vibe over there seems very friendly. Perhaps you could start a thread there too:
https://www.sloweurope.com/community/forums/italy.5/
I follow a lot of expats on Twitter, some are Context Rome guides and some have there own businesses. Here's a nice compilation of some expats with brief bios and tips, from the "In Rome Now" website, (which is maintained by expats as well):
http://www.www.inromenow.com/site%20.../Profiles.html
The articles don't contain links to the expats' Twitter accounts or websites, but if you did a google search using one of the names and added "on Twitter", for example: "Gina Tringali on twitter" then you'd have the link. And their twitter accounts usually have links to their websites or blogs, which could be helpful. And then check out who they follow on twitter and you'll find more of the expat community.
Best of luck to you both! You'll be living my dream - I've fantasized for years about basing myself in Rome for an extended period!
May 2, 2017, 4:20 pm
#4
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 188
There are enormous, large, expat communities in Rome and in Florence. There is a lot to do, but they can walk you through it. InterNations is an agency that helps, but I would instead go to the community and the social networks. Find a friend. Expats love to help. You can start by going to ExpatsLivinginRome.com. There are many others. Having been an expat, I can say you will be welcomed with open arms. Americans love to get to speak english when they are over there for too long.
May 2, 2017, 8:45 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Heraklion, Greece
Posts: 7,565
I lived in a village 10 km from the centre of Perugia for 3 years (200 K), I loved it and I really miss it.
May 3, 2017, 6:14 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 188
A few thousand to start with? I used to live in bigger cities, suburbs, but moved to a small town in the country about 12 years ago. I like to visit the larger cities from time to time, but love the quiet now. Not much traffic to deal with.
May 4, 2017, 4:57 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pasadena, California
Programs: UA 1K, 1MM
Posts: 10,412
). It was amazing. I can easily see how it would be a great area in which to spend a few years.
May 5, 2017, 6:51 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
Some cities started giving away houses, including great farms out in the countryside, for just $1. The catch was, the buyer had to reconstruct the place. Italy has so much red tape that hiring a plumber is a nightmare, so many people walked away from their one dollar investment.
Another part of Italy offered to sell houses for $100 with a guarantee of no red tape. Supposedly, that's going well, but it's mostly people who are OK with driving for 3 hours over sub-standard roads to get to the nearest pharmacy to buy their medications, or to the store to get some milk.
One small town in Italy was depopulating so fast that they passed a law requiring everyone to get a physical exam, and made it illegal to die.
I can understand the dream. A lot also depends on language skills. In small towns with aging populations many still speak a local dialect, and don't speak very much Italian. Italy tends to be a very closed society, with relationships formed over generations. It can get pretty lonely for expats, unless you go to a decent size city with a large expat community, or you have a job there.
A little bit outside of a major town would be nice, but in Italy they talk a lot about how when a satellite or spacecraft flies over northern Italy it's all lit up at night, like the east coast of the USA. It's industrialized and expensive, although of course there are still some nice small towns. Down south it's more like the dream of rural Italy, but it requires a lot of patience to live there.
I'd say it's a good idea, but I'd still break Italy down into smaller units, and not consider it as one country. Being in Friulia is completely different from being in Valle d'Aosta, which is very different from Calabria, which is very different from Molise, which is very different from Sicily, etc.
There really isn't one single place that defines being in Italy. Italy is still a patched together collection of over 20 separate countries after it was founded during the 1860's. I think your experience will come down to where you would like to go in Italy.
May 5, 2017, 7:11 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 163
This is a tough question to answer. In many parts of Italy small town life is dying. Italy has the most aged, or one of the most aging populations in the world, and the lowest birth rate. Small towns are so depopulated that many have become ghost towns.
Some cities started giving away houses, including great farms out in the countryside, for just $1. The catch was, the buyer had to reconstruct the place. Italy has so much red tape that hiring a plumber is a nightmare, so many people walked away from their one dollar investment.
Another part of Italy offered to sell houses for $100 with a guarantee of no red tape. Supposedly, that's going well, but it's mostly people who are OK with driving for 3 hours over sub-standard roads to get to the nearest pharmacy to buy their medications, or to the store to get some milk.
One small town in Italy was depopulating so fast that they passed a law requiring everyone to get a physical exam, and made it illegal to die.
I can understand the dream. A lot also depends on language skills. In small towns with aging populations many still speak a local dialect, and don't speak very much Italian. Italy tends to be a very closed society, with relationships formed over generations. It can get pretty lonely for expats, unless you go to a decent size city with a large expat community, or you have a job there.
A little bit outside of a major town would be nice, but in Italy they talk a lot about how when a satellite or spacecraft flies over northern Italy it's all lit up at night, like the east coast of the USA. It's industrialized and expensive, although of course there are still some nice small towns. Down south it's more like the dream of rural Italy, but it requires a lot of patience to live there.
I'd say it's a good idea, but I'd still break Italy down into smaller units, and not consider it as one country. Being in Friulia is completely different from being in Valle d'Aosta, which is very different from Calabria, which is very different from Molise, which is very different from Sicily, etc.
There really isn't one single place that defines being in Italy. Italy is still a patched together collection of over 20 separate countries after it was founded during the 1860's. I think your experience will come down to where you would like to go in Italy.
Some cities started giving away houses, including great farms out in the countryside, for just $1. The catch was, the buyer had to reconstruct the place. Italy has so much red tape that hiring a plumber is a nightmare, so many people walked away from their one dollar investment.
Another part of Italy offered to sell houses for $100 with a guarantee of no red tape. Supposedly, that's going well, but it's mostly people who are OK with driving for 3 hours over sub-standard roads to get to the nearest pharmacy to buy their medications, or to the store to get some milk.
One small town in Italy was depopulating so fast that they passed a law requiring everyone to get a physical exam, and made it illegal to die.
I can understand the dream. A lot also depends on language skills. In small towns with aging populations many still speak a local dialect, and don't speak very much Italian. Italy tends to be a very closed society, with relationships formed over generations. It can get pretty lonely for expats, unless you go to a decent size city with a large expat community, or you have a job there.
A little bit outside of a major town would be nice, but in Italy they talk a lot about how when a satellite or spacecraft flies over northern Italy it's all lit up at night, like the east coast of the USA. It's industrialized and expensive, although of course there are still some nice small towns. Down south it's more like the dream of rural Italy, but it requires a lot of patience to live there.
I'd say it's a good idea, but I'd still break Italy down into smaller units, and not consider it as one country. Being in Friulia is completely different from being in Valle d'Aosta, which is very different from Calabria, which is very different from Molise, which is very different from Sicily, etc.
There really isn't one single place that defines being in Italy. Italy is still a patched together collection of over 20 separate countries after it was founded during the 1860's. I think your experience will come down to where you would like to go in Italy.
When we were in Orvieto, we met a couple from Seattle with another person from DC. They all three moved there. Apparently, there's about 30 or US citizens living in that town who have either retired or just living for a year or so, like what we want to do.
The town is small enough for us and convenient to Rome and Florence. Has enough English speaking locals (being a 'tourist' type town), plus they say a very good hospital which would be important.
Plus, what can I say, it's just beautiful. Also, they will be good contacts for us in terms of where to rent, etc. The couple rents a 3 BR, 2BA apartment for about $700 euro per month. He says it's very nice with a balcony over looking the vineyards. Pretty cheap. Says these kinds of places can be found in that town.
May 5, 2017, 7:26 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO, VCE
Programs: AA EXP >4 MM, Lifetime Plat
Posts: 2,881
Good insight Perche.
When we were in Orvieto, we met a couple from Seattle with another person from DC. They all three moved there. Apparently, there's about 30 or US citizens living in that town who have either retired or just living for a year or so, like what we want to do.
The town is small enough for us and convenient to Rome and Florence. Has enough English speaking locals (being a 'tourist' type town), plus they say a very good hospital which would be important.
Plus, what can I say, it's just beautiful. Also, they will be good contacts for us in terms of where to rent, etc. The couple rents a 3 BR, 2BA apartment for about $700 euro per month. He says it's very nice with a balcony over looking the vineyards. Pretty cheap. Says these kinds of places can be found in that town.
When we were in Orvieto, we met a couple from Seattle with another person from DC. They all three moved there. Apparently, there's about 30 or US citizens living in that town who have either retired or just living for a year or so, like what we want to do.
The town is small enough for us and convenient to Rome and Florence. Has enough English speaking locals (being a 'tourist' type town), plus they say a very good hospital which would be important.
Plus, what can I say, it's just beautiful. Also, they will be good contacts for us in terms of where to rent, etc. The couple rents a 3 BR, 2BA apartment for about $700 euro per month. He says it's very nice with a balcony over looking the vineyards. Pretty cheap. Says these kinds of places can be found in that town.
May 5, 2017, 12:39 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Happily living in Frenaros Cyprus having escaped the near-death experience called Sofia Bulgaria
Programs: Etihad Guest Gold, DL FO and 1MM, and a bunch of others at a low level
Posts: 2,052
The most important thing that you need to find out about is what is required to get a residency permit, which will be required if you plan to stay there more than 90 days.
May 5, 2017, 6:53 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Heraklion, Greece
Posts: 7,565
) nothing much will happen to you if you stay there without obtaining a legal status, even for a stay of one year. The only "real" problem is that you won't be able to open a bank account in an Italian bank and you won't have medical insurance that will allow you to obtain free service by family doctors. Of course, you can always access the emergency departments of public hospitals for free. (look up Perche's long post on this matter for details).http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/italy...ick-italy.html
Last edited by obscure2k; May 5, 2017 at 7:10 pm Reason: Added link
May 6, 2017, 1:50 am
#14
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
I'm sorry, but there's quite a lot with this post that I don't subscribe to.
I've hired a plumber, electrician, brickie, architect, painter and a cleaning lady from abroad, without any hassle (but for discovering that the electric system needed re-doing.. ouch) and 10% VAT, with the chance to recover the refurbishment costs through the tax declaration (something I'll be ready to admit that my solicitor/commercialista) will do. If you stick to the laws and employ people who know what they're doing it won't be an issue.
On the other hand, like a Dutch neighbour of mine, you buy a Heritage-protected farmhouse and pretend to fit it with a gigantic satellite dish, change colours and roof tiles to a "Tuscan" style bang in the middle of Walsertal then you are bound to have big issues.
With the possible exception of living in an archipelago off the coast of Sardinia, or in the ruins of the Asinara penal colony, or deepest Basilicata, if you assume you drive 3 hours it means you're at least 100km away from the shop/pharmacy/whatever you need. And within 100km you're bound to find your local provincial/regional capital. We're not talking about the Outback.
I've lived for years in a small village whose winter population went down to 10 (plus goats). Assuming you needed anything but goats' milk it was a 10km drive to the nearest convenience store, 30km to the hospital. The longest it took me to walk downhill was indeed 3 hours to the store and bar, but there was a danger of avalanches so we couldn't use the road.
Again, this one requires a pinch of salt. It might be true in Southern Italy, but in the North - even in the smallest places - this hasn't been the truth since he mid 1990s, as internal migration and worldwide immigration have changed the shape and texture of the local communities. In all my years of living in Valle d'Aosta I've never - ever - witnessed anyone, not even those old salts, being unable to switch from walser or djerg to Italian, even if with an accent. Plus if I think that the second largest saint patron in the area is San Gennaro, I believe that things have changed quite a bit. In 2015 at least 6% of those registered in remote provinces such as Sondrio, Belluno, VdA, VCO were born outside of Italy. I've got no illusion whatsoever that finding anyone capable of saying anything in English is going to be hard, but the only place where I'd trouble speaking with the locals was Bozen province.
This is absolutely true, and I daresay that there are differences even within the regions, and from valley to valley. Moving to, say, Torre Pellice is different from going to Valsusa, moving to Lys valley is different from Ayas. And so on and so forth.
Some cities started giving away houses, including great farms out in the countryside, for just $1. The catch was, the buyer had to reconstruct the place. Italy has so much red tape that hiring a plumber is a nightmare, so many people walked away from their one dollar investment.
On the other hand, like a Dutch neighbour of mine, you buy a Heritage-protected farmhouse and pretend to fit it with a gigantic satellite dish, change colours and roof tiles to a "Tuscan" style bang in the middle of Walsertal then you are bound to have big issues.
Another part of Italy offered to sell houses for $100 with a guarantee of no red tape. Supposedly, that's going well, but it's mostly people who are OK with driving for 3 hours over sub-standard roads to get to the nearest pharmacy to buy their medications, or to the store to get some milk.
I've lived for years in a small village whose winter population went down to 10 (plus goats). Assuming you needed anything but goats' milk it was a 10km drive to the nearest convenience store, 30km to the hospital. The longest it took me to walk downhill was indeed 3 hours to the store and bar, but there was a danger of avalanches so we couldn't use the road.
I can understand the dream. A lot also depends on language skills. In small towns with aging populations many still speak a local dialect, and don't speak very much Italian. Italy tends to be a very closed society, with relationships formed over generations. It can get pretty lonely for expats, unless you go to a decent size city with a large expat community, or you have a job there.
I'd say it's a good idea, but I'd still break Italy down into smaller units, and not consider it as one country. Being in Friulia is completely different from being in Valle d'Aosta, which is very different from Calabria, which is very different from Molise, which is very different from Sicily, etc.
There really isn't one single place that defines being in Italy. Italy is still a patched together collection of over 20 separate countries after it was founded during the 1860's. I think your experience will come down to where you would like to go in Italy.
There really isn't one single place that defines being in Italy. Italy is still a patched together collection of over 20 separate countries after it was founded during the 1860's. I think your experience will come down to where you would like to go in Italy.
May 6, 2017, 11:11 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
Good thread. Maybe I can piggyback on a couple of things if anyone has any insight -
We (well, really my wife and daughter) are considering going to Italy this summer and staying a year so that my daughter can attend the final year of asilo there instead of doing kindergarten here in the US. The primary goal is for my daughter to learn more Italian, since she's only really hearing it from me at home the few hours a night we're all together.
Would anyone have any recommendations on where to settle? I think ideally we'd be near a city in central or northern Italy, since there's access to things to do, and english wouldn't be too hard to come by for my wife in case she gets in a bind - she's learned a lot of Italian, but isn't fluent. Essentially, decent schools and people who speak something closer to Standard Italian would be best. Something around Rome would be very convenient - they'd be happier in a town near a city, rather than in a city, given where we live in the US. I'm a pretty good tourist in Italy, but sending my wife and daughter to live somewhere without me is a different question.
Permits wouldn't be applicable here, or at least not in any meaningful way, due to citizenship. My ancestral hometown is Genova, so that's one option, but it's a big country so I thought I'd ask others.
We (well, really my wife and daughter) are considering going to Italy this summer and staying a year so that my daughter can attend the final year of asilo there instead of doing kindergarten here in the US. The primary goal is for my daughter to learn more Italian, since she's only really hearing it from me at home the few hours a night we're all together.
Would anyone have any recommendations on where to settle? I think ideally we'd be near a city in central or northern Italy, since there's access to things to do, and english wouldn't be too hard to come by for my wife in case she gets in a bind - she's learned a lot of Italian, but isn't fluent. Essentially, decent schools and people who speak something closer to Standard Italian would be best. Something around Rome would be very convenient - they'd be happier in a town near a city, rather than in a city, given where we live in the US. I'm a pretty good tourist in Italy, but sending my wife and daughter to live somewhere without me is a different question.
Permits wouldn't be applicable here, or at least not in any meaningful way, due to citizenship. My ancestral hometown is Genova, so that's one option, but it's a big country so I thought I'd ask others.