Perche

There have been two major recent strikes by taxis drivers in Italy, over Uber. Their complaint is that Uber drivers are unlicensed, and can undercut their fares, whereas the government sets the fares of taxis.

Court in Rome just banned Uber in Italy, effective in 10 days. If they continue, they will get daily fines. Uber will, of course, appeal the ruling.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/17_a...5d83b09d.shtml

"Il blocco totale per le auto di Uber. Fanno concorrenza sleale. Roma, la vittoria dei tassisti: vietato anche il servizio Black. Il gruppo: faremo ricorso."

"Total Block for Uber. They are unfair competition. Rome, victory for the taxi drivers: forbidden even Uber Black. Uber: we will appeal."

"They have problems related to maintaining people's privacy, and even with their technology of driverless cars."

Uber Pop was banned in Milan a few years ago, because they authorized unlicensed drivers. Uber lost that appeal.

iapetus

Having read the article, I'm not getting the impression that they'll have much luck with this appeal. What's your take, Perche?

Perche

Although the Italian legal system is byzantine and hard to predict, it does look like Uber is toast in Italy. They've had four bans against them for unfair competition. Uber Pop was banned in Milan, and last month a judge in Torino extended the ban of Uber Pop throughout all of Italy, denying Uber's appeal.

Now the Roman court banned all forms of Uber, starting ten days from now. Uber is appealing, but that can take a while. If the judge upholds the ban, there is no further appeal, and Uber is gone unless the Government intervenes with a new ruling.

For Uber Pop, it was the use of unlicensed, unregulated drivers. For Uber Black, it's that they roam wherever they want, they do get licensed, but get a license in a small town where it's cheap, then drive in Rome, so essentially they are not part of Rome. Uber in Italy consists of a franchise owned by a couple of people in Holland, so the profits go to Holland. Taxis in Italy are very heavily regulated, and Uber is almost completely unregulated, so the taxi drivers really had a legitimate beef about being unable to compete. Every news story about it said that the ban was because Uber competed unfairly.

One of Italy's major newspapers, La Stampa. http://www.lastampa.it/2017/04/07/it...6N/pagina.html

Entro dieci giorni Uber fermerà tutte le corse dopo la decisione del Tribunale civile di Roma. Accolto il ricorso per concorrenza sleale proposto dalle maggiori sigle sindacali e strutture economiche del settore taxi e noleggio con conducente.

"Within ten days Uber will stop after the decision of the Rome Tribunal. The decision that they engage in unfair competition was welcomed by all economic structures of taxis and car/limo services."

All papers are saying things such as, "within ten days, the only Uber presence left in Italy will be Uber Eats in Milan."

PWMTrav

What a shame. Uber is excellent in Rome.

Doc Savage

Too many politicians' oxes being gored. Centuries of petty corruption that benefit many layers of government are threatened.

AlicorporateUK

Shame, but it hardly comes as a surprise (a plus one to Doc's post here)

G

TominLazybrook

I get the whole "Uber doesn't get to make the rules" thing, and I had I lived in Austin, I'd have voted to tell them to pound sand like a majority did there.....

But....

Italy has a problem with ripoff cab drivers, doesn't it (I'm thinking of known areas such as around Termini Centrale and FCO)? I'd be much less concerned about this if this was combined with massive taxi enforcement action, ensuring that the taxi drivers....along with Uber, actually obey the rules.

rickg523

I've only had positive experiences with taxis in Rome. The fares are reasonable, the cabs are clean, and I've never gotten the "grand tour." Okay, I check the best route on Google Maps, but only once or twice has the driver deviated. Once because of heavy traffic and once because of a closure (street demonstration). In fact, inside the walls, on metered rides, every driver I've asked has given me a decent idea of the fare before I got in.
From FCO, the fare to central Rome is fixed.

iapetus

So, I want to be clear and up front with what I am about to post: I do think that these two experiences were outliers and atypical of one's normal experience with Roman taxis. That said, I did have one cabbie try to charge me more than the standard €48 fare from the center to FCO. I also had one tell me that he couldn't make change for a €20 note.

Most of my experiences with cabs in Rome have been perfectly smooth. But it doesn't take a lot of bad ones to leave a bad impression.

ewrfox

My only complaint about Uber is the lack of Vans. They are out there, but it's hard to request one. So when I was there, I had to split the rides with regular cabs and uber.

Perche

When you read the actual judicial report, the ruling seems wholly justified. I'll try to summarize the points later. It's impossible to compare one country with the way things operate in another. Taxis in many places could stand to use competition to get better, because the service is terrible. I'm thinking of the USA.

In Rome, the taxis are great. In many cities in Italy people feel as if they are getting the tourist ride, but they are not. The cities were built centuries before cars were invented, there are a lot of ZTL no drive zones, and it's not like in New York, where you can just go straight up Second Avenue, make a left on 53rd street, and be at your place. The level of professionalism of taxis in Italy is far beyond the USA, just like the train system. You'll always get a few bad apples, but they are far less common than in most places. I think that only the taxis in London are better and more honest.

Austin, Texas recently banned Uber, and it was a far more competitive playing field for Austin taxis. In Italy, Uber acting without restraints, and taxis acting in a heavily regulated environment, couldn't co-exist. It's very difficult to judge Italy from the free capitalist perspective of the USA. Italy had to do what it had to do, or else hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs to a company in Holland (Uber in Italy is based in Holland). I don't want to get political, but a headline in NY today was that NY State was putting US steel workers out of business by buying foreign steel.

Why should Italy voluntarily surrender its taxi force to a company based Holland? Again, not to get political, but I'm hearing the same arguments in the USA.

iapetus

Perche, your statements about the professionalism immediately recalled this New York Times article about a particular Roman cab driver. I'm just glad I managed to find it!

ckendall

Italian taxi law is extremely consumer unfriendly. If you call a taxi, the meter starts when the cab answers the call, and can be five Euros plus the meter drop when the cab picks you up. The fixed fees to the airports are an improvement, but I attended a conference in Naples where three of us took (separate) cabs from the airport and we each paid a different price, in a 10 Euro range, for the identical trip.

I take cabs fairly frequently (though I did use Uber pop when it was briefly available in Milan) and I understand it's a tough way to make a living, but I am not a fan. Most cab drivers treated me fairly though one played the fake 20 Euro note game after I got out of the cab. Why can't I pay with a credit card every time? Why are rates so much higher on the weekend?

Perche

It might be considered unfriendly that the meter drops when they get called, if you compare that to the USA. It's not considered unfriendly when you consider that all taxis in Italy must remain at a taxi stand and cannot roam around like a taxi would do in New York City or in Washington DC, where you can flag them down from anywhere. It's a different country, and since taxis must wait at a taxi stand, that makes sense for Italy.

Why can't you pay with a credit card every time? Because you are not in America. It's a different country. That being said, most of the time in the USA, the cab drivers tell me, "the internet is down, I can't get the credit card to work," or, they tell me, "if you want to pay me by credit card, I have to add a 4% fee." I'm a big tipper, but I always say, "charge me whatever you want for me paying by credit card, I'll just take it out of your tip."

A close friend and business colleague who was on the 1972 Olympic Team as a high jumper in Munich, and who had to dodge bullets because the Israeli Team was taken hostage, who then worked on the professional track and field circuit until he had to have two knee replacements from too many jumps, recently showed up at a meeting after he was beaten up by a taxi cab driver in Philadelphia. He wanted to pay with a credit card, and even though the car had a sign saying that they accept credit cards, he didn't have any cash on him. The Philly driver beat up my 6 foot 8 inch tall hobbled friend, former Olympian, because he didn't have cash, and his knees were too beat up for him to have defended himself.

He showed up to the meeting in Philly pretty bashed up. That stuff doesn't happen in Italy. People keep thinking of Italy as if they are in some Martin Scorsese mafia movie stereotype. Italy is far more civilized than the USA, especially when it comes to taxi cabs.

As far as change goes, the fact is, there is little change in Italy. People don't have change. If you go to the grocery and it costs 10.20, they will take 10 because they don't have the change. If it costs 9.70 they will take your ten and and not give you the 30 cents back, and you'd make a fool of yourself asking for it. They don't carry change in Italy. That's all there is to it.

Don't blame the cab driver. i was upset this morning at the Hampton Inn when the coffee maker only had decaf at 4 AM when I had to get up for a 6 AM flight and i needed caffeine. Do I blame all hotel housekeepers in the USA because the housekeeper screwed up?

In Italy, they generally don't have change. That's why almost all prices are to the euro, not 2.64 euros. There's no change. The only place that has change will be at the pharmacy, where prices are tightly regulated to the penny, and monitored. Everywhere else, there is either no change, or it is rounded off.

If you want to get off on a great, friendly foot when in Italy, have change to pay the people, instead of asking them to give you change back, because Italy just doesn't have change, except for very hot tourist spots.

s0ssos

I appreciate your explanation of all things Italian. I find that we Americans should learn more about other cultures instead of presuming the American way is the right way. When in Rome ...