ross11988

Hello everyone

I'm looking to goto Italy for the first time, some background about me.
28 year old single male. Travel for work, but never been to Europe.
I found flights for 60K United Miles next May RT from Rome. I was looking to have a schedule like:
3 days in Rome
3 days in Venice
3 days in Naples
1 day in Rome before I leave.
I was looking to use Uber/Cab and train most of the time instead of renting a car. Just wondering if I'm overlooking anything.

Perche

Looks good. Some people might quibble with not having Florence in there, but I think that's only a must if you really are into renaissance art. Of course, when taking the train from Rome to Venice, it does stop in Florence, where you can spend a day before getting to Venice. Definitely do not rent a car. Finalize your plans early. It's never too early to get a reservation for your hotel for Italy in May.

PWMTrav

I'd be that person that would quibble! For a first timer, I nearly always recommend Rome-Florence-Venice. But in this case, stick with what you have, Naples is awesome.

I think you'd be happy if you kept your plan as-is. May's a great time, the weather's nice North and South. Resist the urge to add more to a 10 day trip. Stick with your plan and see Florence another time. And if possible keep your hotels flexible. Rome and Naples can each be 5 days each, and if you arrive in one and want to extend, it's easier to do it with flexible cancellation policies on your hotels. You can always make an excuse to return for a separate Florence-Venice trip.

myeurocrush

Were you thinking on staying in Naples for 3 days? Because I would definitely ditch Naples and spend 3 days at the Amalfi Coast instead.

I second the Open Jaw suggestion - fly into Rome or Naples, and fly out of Venice or vice versa, if you can. There is an overnight train from Venice to Naples.

ross11988

Yeah, I always hear people mention Florance, but I'm not really into art. Naples is because that's where my family is from. I'll look into an open jaw flight too. Appreciate all the help!

hedur

Is this a hard and fast rule?

In September we're doing 6 nights (5 full days) in Rome, 3 nights (2 1/2 days) in Florence, and 3 nights (2 1/2 days) in Venice (I do last minute award flights so it's very possible I could have an extra day or two in Venice).

First time in Italy so major cities/sites are a no brainer but one traveling companion wants to visit a small town in the Tuscan countryside. We've settled on Pitigliano for many reasons, so instead of taking the easy 1 1/2 hour train ride Rome-Florence we planned on taking the long(ish) drive - leaving early from Rome and getting to Florence no later than 4pm because I don't want to sacrifice time there. And, obviously, picking the car up and dropping off outside the ZTL.

Is this a bad idea?

BTW, many thanks to you and PWMTrav for your advice in this forum. It has helped immensely.

rickg523

Totally doable, though it seems daunting. I've driven both northern and southern Italy. I prefer using public transport, but some areas of Italy are much easier to explore with a car. So on many trips, I'll have a car for a portion of the itinerary as you're planning to do.
Considering the rental process, I've used Europcar and Hertz. Found both easy to do with similar pricing and chose mainly for convenience of location. Be sure to include the cost of the "Super Cover" insurance in your budget. It can substantially increase your rental cost. (An extreme example.In 2012, I rented a Fiat 500 from Hertz. The base weekly rate was €175. Super Cover was €177 a week. In 2014, I rented an Audi, the insurance in that case didn't double the rental, but ran €275 for a week.)
Check your credit card and you'll find Italy among the excluded countries. This is true even for Amex Premium Rental Insurance which is added if you use a Platinum Card. I wouldn't count on my own insurance either. Might work but may be a load of hassle making a reimbursement claim ex-Italy.
Even very minor damage - the kind of thing that happens when you're parked - is charged at very high rates. Village streets are narrow and uneven. A scratch on the left door rocker panel from a curbstone in Spello would have cost me €1500. With Super Cover, I walked away free and clear.
Insurance aside, I found driving in Italy fairly easy. Autostrada are very like freeways in Southern California, with better lane discipline. They can get crowded. Watch the lorries. Back roads vary in surface quality but the good ones can be really fun for enthusiastic driving. Village streets can be challenging. Parking can also be inconvenient.
Preplan your route, use street view as much as you can before you go, have SatNav. And it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, watch your speed.
Have fun.

myeurocrush

I thought driving in Tuscany was no problem. Rome is probably even ok although I've never tried it. Do NOT drive in Naples. Just don't. Florence was tricky. We had trouble finding the parking garage, ended up driving down a pedestrian only street, but it turned out fine in the end.

And I think it’s a great idea to take some time out and visit the Tuscan countryside rather spending all your time in cities. In face I strongly feel that the charm of Italy lies outside the cities. (I live in Europe and have visited several times). I guess alot of people here love Florence but when I went to this area we chose to stay in the Tuscan countryside near Chianti and do a full daytrip to Florence with the car. It was perfectly fine to see the Ufizzi, the David (a total must do) and Doumo, and walk around the city in one day. My recommendation would be not to worry too much about sacrificing time in Florence over spending time in Tuscany. In fact I would recommend trading one night in Rome or Florence for one night in Tuscany. Some of my best memories from Italy are the meals we had in Tuscany. One was a lunch at a vineyard where I had what may possibly be the biggest and best homemade meal of my life paired with Lots of Chianti  Was a great experience.

Enjoy Italy, actually Rome and Venice are some of my favorite places in Europe. Hope you love it too.

manneca

I have been to Italy 5 or so times and didn't go to Florence until my last trip. I can't wait to get back there. But I do love the art.

I have no idea what I'd do in Venice for three days.

I'd suggest the itinerary as a suggestion. If you are traveling solo, plan your three days in Rome (by that I mean your accommodations) and see how you like it. You may run into people who have suggestions that sound more interesting than your suggestions. Or take to train to Venice, see how you like it and decide either to stay or perhaps visit some other towns in the Veneto.

I love the Dorling Kindersley guide books because they are full of pictures. You might want to peruse one and see if there is anything else that grabs your attention.

hedur: I've driven in Italy a lot. I drove from Rome to Ravenna to Venice to some place near Florence in the country and stayed in a villa, then into Florence and then off to Rome. The drive from Florence to Rome was long and boring.

Perche

It's easy to drive in Italy, as easy as it is to drive in Germany and in the USA. If you are a good driver and have your reflexes about you, that is, you can drive in Boston, you can drive in Naples. Driving is not a problem at all in Italy.

The factors to weigh are the following. Many urban areas of Italy are "green" and pedestrian only. There are signs, sometimes subtle, that people don't see. They come back to the USA, and major tickets are sent to them. In Italy there isn't a cop on the street stopping you, to give you a ticket, as in California. There is just a picture saying, "You were here, at a time when the traffic was limited to people of only this sticker on the license plate," etc, so now you have to pay.

Florence is the most notorious. I know people who have just innocently driven around there, making a few wrong turns to try to find their rental car place, going into the ZTL, or forbidden areas, who get home and find that they have 5 expensive tickets.

When I am not in Italy, I more or less live in San Francisco, Marin County, or somewhere between Marin and Sacramento. I have places to stay in each. San Francisco is my favorite place, but even though I have a Marin drivers license, I will rarely drive in SF. Why? There is no place to park! I take the ferry in from my home in Tiburon, because parking in SF is a madhouse. Taking the ferry in, then taking public transportation or a cab, is the worry-free way to go. Unless you want to spend hours in traffic, then not finding a place to park, then putting the car in a garage for 60 dollars, if you can find a garage that is not full.

In Italy, car driving is worse. It is much easier to get a ticket because it is not dependent on a police officer with a speed gun. They just have cameras every where. Make a wrong turn, get a ticket. When it comes to parking, I have friends who are native New Yorkers, and somehow, they always find a place to park, but if you don't know, you may spend hours trying to find a place to park your car. If anyone thinks that parking their car is herd in their city in the USA, just magnify that times 3-5X's and that is how it is in Italy. Of course if staying in a luxe hotel it can be different.

As someone who would go to Italy mainly for teaching sciences, sponsored, it wasn't a problem, everything would be arranged, but now, going mostly to keep up old friendships and being self-sponsored, its harder. And I know the system. I rent cars all the time because you just have to some time. However, for a completely new American tourist, it can be hard. You can absolutely do it if you are young (don't accuse me of ageism), know how to drive in big cities with aggressive drivers. If you can drive a taxi in NYC, you can drive in Rome or Naples.

There is a different ethic. There are a lot of traffic circles. As in Boston. If you come in on the outside and need to exit to the outside, no one will let you in. If you try, they will blow their horn, give you the finger, and road rage. In Naples, they won't give you a spot to let you in either. So you just don't look. Just drive to your exit without even turning your head, The other drivers will yield. They won't blow their horn. They will let you go cut across them in ways I wouldn't try in Miami.

Anybody with their reflexes and driving skills about them, can drive in Italy. The problem is, comparing the USA with Italy's train system. There is basically no train system in the USA. Amtrak? Except for a few routes, taking a train in the USA is miserable. I had to do it a lot last year. It's almost a "hold your nose" experience.

In Italy, travel by train is a sheer pleasure, most of the time. You have a nice seat, internet connection, a car with a bar for coffee and drinks, functional and clean bathrooms, and they leave you off in the city center, and no concerns about traffic tickets, or driving around for hours finding a place to park.

We don't have a functional rail system in the USA. In Italy, they do. So I would just say, try it out. Learn how to use it. It is so much more functional than driving a car.

When you want to explore countryside, as in driving through Tuscany (I don't know why, it is too touristy for my tastes), if you want to rent a car, it's no different from renting a car in the USA. When I lived in Naples, for example, I had to do a lot of back and forth to ancestral country for paperwork to establish citizenry. There was no way to do it without a car. I'd rent a car, drive it, get back to Naples the same day. Cheap and simple. In my early days in NYC I drove a cab for a while. Easier to drive in Naples than to drive a NYC taxi.

The balance point is this, weighing in a car versus a train. In the USA the trains are so bad that you will almost always choose to rent a car. In Italy, the trains are so good that you will almost alway choose the train over the car.

rickg523

As usual, Perche capped it. What an asset to FT. Everything he says here is correct.
I love driving through the Italian countryside and having the freedom to wander and discover.
I understood you didn't intend to drive in the city centers, something I would strongly advise against. I mostly rent from airports, or suburban offices if available, using transport to get to and from the city centers.
I concur with Perche. Try to use transport alternatives between major cities and in them. The trains work very well in Italy.
And get yourself very familiar with Italian traffic signage, esp parking signage and ZTL signage. Even small cities and towns have parking restrictions and some have ZTL. Don't go in there with a car or expect to pay dearly for the mistake. Look around. Everywhere you see a ZTL sign, you'll see a bank of cameras (like the speed cameras you never see). If you drive past the sign, even to turn around, expect a photo and a bill in the mail when you get home. This is very strictly enforced.
.....And buy the insurance when you rent.

trvlnman

Just returned yesterday from 14 days in Italy with the wife and kids. Like many vacations, the planning and researching can drive you crazy. I was told 1.5 days in Venice was adequate and that turned out to be good advice. It's beautiful but incredibly touristy and after a full day you've seen it. Do two nights there. Get off the main street and roam around away from all the tourists with selfie sticks. I took out numerous guidebooks from the library and found the Rick Steeves books to be the best. I brought them on the trip with us. His books are conversational, realistic, and provide practical tips. As for your proposed agenda, you have too much time in Venice in my opinion. I'd spend more time in Rome and Naples. In Rome I suggest the Pantheon, Colosseum/ruins, and Castel Sant'Angelo among other sites. You can use Naples as a base to visit Vesuvius, Pompeii, the Amalfi coast, Sorrento, and/or Capri. One of the best ways to visit the Amalfi coast is by boat rather than car/bus. There's a boat company called Travelmar based in Salerno and you can hop on their boats which go to four of the Amalfi coast towns. The view from the water is incredible which you'll miss it if you visit by car/bus. Agree with others who say the train system is a great way to go. I found it incredibly cheap to take the train. Forget upgrading to higher classes of service, the base cabin is fine. We rented a car for a week and I found it easy to drive. I wish our roads in the US were as smooth as the Italian roads. You'll have a million decisions to make during the planning process and you can't possibly see/do everything. Just pick a few sites that interest you most, bake in some free time to explore, and know that the biggest attraction in Italy is Italy itself - no matter where you are.

Perche

I'll have to push back on that one. I've lived in Venice half of the last six years, and I haven't see it all. In the past six years I've probably lived there 3.5 years. It depends on whether you are just doing superficial touristy things, as indicated in your post about where you were, with tourists with selfie sticks.

The number one rule is don't go to Venice in August, which you did. I try to stay out of Italy in August, unless I'm going to very certain areas. I had to go a few weeks ago, and since it was only a short trip, not enough time to get up into Piemonte, where it is beautiful and fine, or down south with the non-tourist beaches, I insisted on staying in Rome. Rome can absorb large tourist crowds. Only the Vatican, Forum, Colosseum, and of course, good restaurants, need some serious pre-planning, and I didn't need that.

Venice is the most popular city in Italy for one reason; it's drop dead beauty. But in August when you went, you get this, naked tourists jumping into the canal to swim:
http://www.ilgazzettino.it/nordest/v...a-1928855.html,

The newspaper last week had a picture of a large family that camped out in Piazza San Marco, set up camp, made a fire, brought out large pots, and cooked curry. The headline translates to, "Degradation without end. A family prepares curry in san Marco Square. http://www.ilgazzettino.it/nordest/v...egrado-1846169.

That is what you saw, because you didn't go into Venice, the parts where I live, and the people live. Similar to the Guardian Angels in NYC, where they walked around and tried to stop crime, Piazza San Marcos now has a similar contingent of youth volunteers to get people to stop having picnics on church steps, stop feeding pigeons, etc.

So, you went in August when no Venetians, including part time Venetians like myself, will be there. We leave the tourists to themselves to devour the city, and then we come back when the city starts getting back to itself. But August is when you went.

I move back into the city when things start to return to normal, and then we have the most charming, beautiful city in the world. Don't pass summary judgment on Venice with you just being a one-and-a-half-day tourist in August. The OP didn't say when he was going. If he is going in late fall or late winter, non-tourist season (which also heavily affects Florence), he can have a wonderful time.

There is a reason why the crowds are Venice, and I believe it has more visitors than even Rome and Florence: there is so much to do and see.

To say you can see Venice in 1.5 days means that you haven't seen anything. There's a ton of things happening in Venice even today, unless you are just a sightseer who likes to just walk around and take pictures of other tourists: http://www.veneziatoday.it/eventi/

Every day Venice has so much to offer that you can't take it all in. If you just walk around taking pictures of San Marco Square and the Rialto Bridge then you are a tourist, and will not like it because you will be bored in 1.5 days. OP seems to be more of a traveler than a tourist. Any place that you only spend 1.5 days at means that you are not a traveler. You are a tourist. You are not spending enough time at any one place to peel the surface enough to say that you traveled there.

If you are going to to only do 1.5 days at a place, it is better to scratch that place off your list because that's not even time to know a tiny little village. You will have just the superficial experiences that you had, that Venice, once one of the most powerful and important countries in the world, with some of the best art, food, music, architecture can all be digested in 1.5 days, which is impossible. It seems you were there for just a tourist picture taking session, not to get to know Venice.

Tourists cruise through places, take pictures, to prove they've been there, then move to another place to prove they also stood under the Leaning Tower.

Venice is the prime spot in Italy, but you should never go in August, just like you should be careful about going to Florence in August, though it can be done.

In summ, you shouldn't pass judgment of a city that you went to, at the time of the year when a tourist shouldn't plan to be there, and only spent a day and a half.

myeurocrush

I completely agree with Perche. I spent 5 days in Venice and it wasn't enough. I would go back in a heartbeat. So please go easy before you say it's not worth more than 2 days. It really depends on whether you are there just to see tourist attractions or if you want to try to immerse your self in the city and experience local life. And yes there are alot of tourist, but once you get off the beaten path its really not that bad. At least when I went at Easter time, that's how I foudnd it. A very nice time of year to go. Definitely not August.

.

PWMTrav

You need to keep in mind that different visitors want different things, and for some 2 days is plenty. But a universal truth is that visiting Venice in the summer is asking for punishment

Visiting Venice honestly makes me a little sad. The city has half the population it did 30 years ago - locals can't afford to live there and there's nothing for younger educated people to do for work there. They really need to manage that or there will be nobody left living there. Given the crush of cruise ships that arrive all summer long, multiplying the port fees would probably be a good start.