jcoop

Hi folks,

I'm currently planning a summer vacation to Italy for myself, wife and our then-to-be 26 month old daughter. We're flying into Rome on August 6th (YYZ-IST-FCO in TK J) and leaving from MXP on August 22nd (MXP-YYZ AC Y) because that's all that was available through Aeroplan. As a result, we'll have 15 full days (16 nights) on the ground in Italy. What do you think we should do?

This is our first time in Italy and we don't have much by way of "must see" destinations in mind, although my wife has requested some time on a coast and near mountains. Given our interests and our daughter's attention span, art galleries and museums don't hold much appeal. We do like general sightseeing, exploring cities and villages, and day trips by car (as our daughter naps easily in the car seat, but not at all in a stroller). We are not really looking for fine dining (due to the toddler issue) but are big fans of wine, cheese, cured meats and pizza.

We plan to book 2 bedroom apartments through airbnb, and were thinking of staying in three different places to balance the hassle of packing/unpacking with the desire to see a few different regions of the country. I don't want to force an excessively hectic pace, but at the same time we aren't exactly going to be lingering in cafes for hours with an impatient toddler in tow.

My first inclination is to visit the fairly standard Rome/Tuscany/Venice, perhaps staying in a villa (with a rental car) for the middle stage so we can explore a little. We'd still have to get to Milan from Venice, maybe with a night at an airport hotel to reduce the amount of travel for one day.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan? Any obvious problems? Other destinations that might bump one of those three of the list? Thanks in advance.

PWMTrav

Three places in 15 days is a nice pace. We did 8 or 9 days last year with our 18 month old, but we stuck to one city since we like Florence a lot.

August is going to be tough - it's hotter there, plenty of tourists and a lot of Italians themselves leave for vacation. Unless you want heat, I suggest sticking north of Rome.

Since you're traveling at basically peak of peak, crowds will be your biggest issue. That means waiting in line for things. But if you're probably not going to museums, you might not have to worry about it as much.

I think Rome should be on your list - August might be busy, but it's a big city and used to dealing with crowds. Plus, if you've never seen it, you can avoid lines and just walk around if you'd like. The colosseum looks great walking around it, even if you don't go inside. You can walk through the forum. Etc. At least 5 days here.

Florence is my favorite city, so anyone reading this forum regularly knows I always recommend it. It'll be crowded and I wouldn't suggest trying to get into the Accademia or Uffizi without a tour guide that can cut the lines, but it doesn't sound like you're doing that. The city center is otherwise compact and very walkable. We found it great with a toddler, and the relative proximity of everything was why we chose to make that our first Italy destination with a kid in the first place. There's food, shopping and scenery to see without standing in line. You could also get on the train and day trip out to Livorno if you want to go to the coast. Five days here would pass quickly. I can help with activities for Florence if you decide it's on your itinerary, let me know.

If you want to do one more city, maybe visiting during peak tourist season is a good excuse to go to Torino. It's been on my list for a while, but I haven't actually been there. It's Italy's fourth largest city, yet doesn't get nearly the tourist traffic of Rome/Florence/Venice. If you had some spare time there, you could take a train down to the Ligurian coast - Genoa, Portofino or the Cinque Terre. Genoa has a nice aquarium if you're in a bind for a toddler-friendly activity.

I'm just throwing darts, but since you arrive FCO and depart MXP, maybe you do Rome, Florence, Torino, with a plan to day drip once from each of Florence and Torino.

Twickenham

Having been to Rome, Florence and Torino, I agree that's a nice itinerary. Venice is gorgeous, but it also is incredibly busy in summer, and I'm not sure how toddler-friendly it would be. Torino is a bit of a hidden gem, we only spent a couple of days there but I really liked it. And Florence is wonderful, but again, height of summer, we're talking serious crowds.

I can suggest one place in Tuscany, where we stayed last summer: Agriturismo Felciano. A 2-bedroom, 2 bathroom cottage, on a winery where they also make their own olive oil (you receive a bottle of each upon arrival), free wifi, and the best views ever. For 70 euros a night. Highly recommended.

jcoop

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not so worried about the heat, as Toronto has it's share of hot and sticky weather in August. Torino might be interesting, although I fear that staying in a big city will just be more of the same by that point in the trip. Do you really think it's worth spending 5-6 days there over somewhere else?

Part of me thinks it would be nice to stay somewhere like Lake Como or Cinque Terre for the third stop, then travel into the bigger cities when we felt ambitious.

slawecki

although venice has installed a number of ramps on the bridges, one would have to haul the stroller, and the child up and down a lot of steps.

PWMTrav

That part's up to you. Rome and Florence are pretty different from one another, so I don't think you'll suffer city fatigue. Rome before Florence might be a nice progression with a toddler, too, since you're starting with the largest most spread out city first and then moving into Florence where you can really cut back the pace.

If you wanted to make that 3rd stop something that wasn't a city, that sounds fun too. You're right that you can day trip from there. But research your transportation options once you make a choice - I try to avoid renting cars in Italy and taking trains, and if you do the same, you'll want to make sure getting in and out of that place is within your parameters. You're definitely not going to have a car in the Cinque Terre or Florence unless you're parking way outside the center, so make sure you're okay with transferring trains as many times as you need to.

jcoop

Makes sense... Cinque Terre might be a little too rugged.

Are there any good beach-y areas in Florence or Liguria that would be particularly well suited for day trips, with good road and rail links? Most of the coastline seems pretty rocky. The beach at Viareggio looks nice.

PWMTrav

I'm not too good on the details of which beaches to visit, unfortuntely. We live near the beach at home, so we usually don't bother with it when we travel. That might be why we go to cities so much - we don't live in one anymore.

EMB

I second a visit to the Lakes region. I spent a whole week at Lake Maggiorre last year and it just flew by. We stayed at a great hotel in Stresa that had a mini kitchen. Took the local ferries around to the different islands.
It was very relaxing and I would highly recommend it.

jcoop

It's funny how that works... we do actually live near a nice beach, but only go once a year at best. Being near water is relaxing, for some reason.

MSPeconomist

From Florence, Lucca and Pisa are easy day trips. I think a kid would like Pisa with the leaning tour and all the striped churches.

Don't try Cinque Terre with a toddler.

If you go south, avoid Naples but head for the Amalfi Coast and Capri, although they will be very crowded. You could do a gentle trip to the volcanic ruins, but it can be hot and strenuous. I would consider Capri to have a number of interesting things for a kid.

Perche

You're going to have a memorable vacation, but italy in August presents challenges. For first timers Venice-Florence-Rome, usually in that order, is recommended. I know you're doing it in reverse, and that's OK. It's usually best to start with venice because it's small and easy, completely unique and magical. There are no cars. The pace is slow. Florence is a step more urban, and that prepares you for Rome. Crossing some of the streets in Rome is something like being in NYC with them suspending all driving rules.

I'd forget about renting a car. There's no need. You're not allowed to drive downtown in many cities unless you have plates indicating you live downtown. You can't always tell where those zones begin. They have cameras that take photos. When you get home you can wind up getting ten expensive tickets in the mail, and you can't get out of them. They have connections with usa collection companies and will come after you.

The only exception is if you want to rent a car for a day to tour the wine country. If you plan on drinking wine however, it would be better to hire a car and driver. The limit for driving under the influence is much more strict than in the USA. No leniency is shown. Serious jail time and impoundment of the vehicle is common. It's not worth it.

The problem with Venice in August is it is awful. I can say this because I live there almost half time. It's packed with tourists. So much so that it's hard to walk. There's a terrible mosquito problem. Every venetian who can manage it gets out in August. One day arrive in the evening, see Piazza San Marco late after the crowds have died down, see the Rialto Bridge early in the morning, and then get out.

You will face the same problem in Florence. Also, August 15th is Ferragosto. Just about everyone in the country goes on vacation, usually for the rest of the month. The only places this doesn't hold is in the places that make a killing off of tourists, like Venice, Florence, and Rome, so they work, and then spend their winter on a beach in Cuba.

Speaking of beaches, you have to be careful. Italy is very densely packed. Italians have a different sense of personal space. They invade what Americans consider their personal space, intrusion into which feels uncomfortable, but it doesn't bother them, and it shows at the beach. For the most part italian beaches in August, when most Italians are on vacation and go to the beach, along with what seems like much of Germany, look like this: https://11k2.files.wordpress.com/201...alfi_beach.jpg

Thinking out of the box I'd say two things. First, this is where the mother in law is worth her weight in gold. If possible, get a place with two bedrooms, and spend the extra $1.5k to take the mother in law with you. The wife will trust her mother and you two can go out and wander, eat, do your thing on your own. The grandmother of a two year old wants to spend time with the kid more than see wants to see Italy. Doesn't mean you can't all go out together for coffee and pastry, or for a walk, but mothers-in-law can really salvage a trip and allow you to have romantic dinners, go sightseeing, stay out late, and know you don't have to worry about the two year old. It's the perfect job for the mother in law if her own professional life can swing it, and is totally worth the money.

Second, because it's August and Ferragosto, I'd think out of the box and do just one evening and half a day in Venice. Maybe two nights in Florence seeing a few highlights like sunset at Piazzele Michelangelo, two nights in Rome seeing the Colosseo and Forum, and spend the rest of the time relaxing in a rural Agritorismo or something similar, and save Venice, Florence Rome in-depth for another day. It's just too crowded and touristy that time of the year.

Torino is the 4th largest city in Italy, one of my favorite cities in Italy. I worked there for much of 2013. I spent Ferragosto 2014 there, and it was a ghost town around August 15th and for the rest of the month. I spent Ferragosto 2013 in Modena, normally a lively university town, and it was dreadfully empty, and I almost starved. You can practically starve because the restaurants and even the food stores are almost all closed.

Venice, Florence and Rome, however, are always crowded August, ready for the tourist dollar.

Small towns where everyone doesn't leave, may be your best bet. When I say small town, people may think of a small town in Tuscany, but it's super hot and crowded there. Tuscany is almost completely overrun by tourists in the summer, especially in August/Ferragosto. Even the smallest crowds are so overcrowded that in many cases you have to park on the side of the rode a mile or two away from the town and take a shuttle bus in.

In other words, this might be a time to go to regular Italy, not to one of the tourist parts. Just see the main tourist spots for one day since you may not get back for a while, then go to the country.

The book "Under the Tuscan Sun," did more for Tuscan tourism than all of the Tuscan advertising ever spent. The place is now overrun in August. Piedmonte is up North, bordering France and the alps. It's better wine country than Tuscany by almost any measure, and is like Tuscany before the tourism, but prettier, and the food is better. You can buy a chianti for $10. Try to buy a Piedmonte Barolo for less than $60, or a good Barbaresco for less than $30, or a Dolcetto, or Nebbiolo. These are premium wines, but they cost less than a glass of soda up there. And the weather will be nice and cool, with plenty of hikes to take, and there will be few tourists.

You can go there for summer festivals, and instead of being in sweltering ofercrowded Tuscan tourist towns, it looks like this: https://livinginthelanghe.wordpress....ood-and-drink/
You can find a house or agriturismo to rent, drive down to Torino when you want, or over to France for a country meal.

Don't even think of Cinque Terre in August. That's like being on the A train in NYC at rush hour, in terms of crowds.

A nice compromise between urban and rural is Lake Como in August. It's up in the mountains, pleasantly cool, not hot, on the water, fresh water beaches for swimming, great restaurants, knock dead gorgeous scenery, and except for Bellagio the towns are not crowded. Because of the harsh winter, during which time they have to close, they all stay open in August (except for Ferragosto proper, the day of August 15th when everything everywhere is closed). Varenna is the best of the Como lake towns IMHOP.

You have options, but I'd recommend getting creative and forgetting about the usual Venice-Florence-Rome with a two year old, smack in the middle of August. If you do this right it will be memories of a lifetime.

ADDENDUM: Absolutely, since you are flying out of MXP, rent a room at the MXP Sheraton for the night before returning. You shouldn't go from Venice to MXP and fly out the same day. And you don't want to stay in Milan travel to the airport in the morning. Whatever you do, since you are flying out of MXP on August 22nd, plan your itinerary to arrive at the MXP Sheraton early evening of the 21st. Do not stay anywhere else. it's the only way to go. I'd make that reservation soon, as it won't be available for long, and the price will only go up.

jcoop

Thanks for all the advice! There's no way I'm bringing my mother in law along for the trip though... it's a long story but let's just say that it would be a net negative. Our daughter is a very good traveler as long as we can maintain some semblance of a daily routine, which requires diligence and consistency from all caregivers.

On further reflection and looking at the logistics, Venice and Cinque Terre are out. We're now looking at 5 nights in Rome (just booked an airbnb 2 bedroom apartment in Prati), a week in a Tuscan agriturismo (with a pool and AC) and 4 nights in the lake district. Torino is just too far west to justify the side trip.

We're okay with crowds, hot weather and crazy traffic - that's part of the vacation experience! Our last summer vacation was in southern England (in August) and we were disappointed that it was so cool there. Living in Canada, summer is too short so it's key to get in some hot weather before the long winter sets in. I was fine driving around England (including Central London outside and around the congestion zone) and we made good use of park and ride facilities on day trips, so Italy doesn't faze me. At least they drive on the right side of the road... that being said, we won't have a car while in Rome, because I'm not a complete idiot.

Our flight from MXP departs at 12:55PM, and Varenna (for example) is a 90 minute drive to the airport. Given this, a night at an airport hotel seems a little excessive as long as we stay within a reasonable distance of MXP. Am I missing something?