Perche

PS: Scratch Pizzeria del Presidente off of the list.

When Bill Clinton was President and visited Italy he wanted to taste the best pizza that Italy has, and they sent him there. The owner was so proud that he changed the name of the place to Presidente, in honor of Clinton.

The owner had a stroke last year, and closed down. Italian inheritance laws are the reason why a lot of apartments in Venice are empty. There is too much red tape to inherit something in Italy. The children got into a fight and I don't remember if it was a daughter or a niece, but one of them opened a new, "Presidente" while the fate of the original one was still tied up in court, just to capitalize on the name.

The original one on Via Tribunale will never, ever open again. The new one run by the family renegade is shunned by Napolitani for what she did, trying to capitalize on the name after someone had a stroke. I hear it's bad pizza. I was going to go there but I did not, because if you talk to a Napolitano in the neighborhood and mention you are going to eat there you'll get the, "evil eye."

iluvcruising2

Thanks very much for your comment as well as sharing all your knowledge on pizzas. It has been an eye-opener for me. Cheers and have a blessed Christmas.

allset2travel

Great thread. Thanks OP for started it.

I am nuts about pizzas in Italy (in fact most Italian food). However, I never had pizza in Napoli. Next time I will definitely try some. Thanks to Perche and Forrest Bump for their local knowledge.

fmkgb

Would welcome suggestions of trattorias or restaurants with great local food and authentic atmosphere -- Mid-priced and somewhere I would be comfortable as a solo female traveler would be helpful. I understand the point of the posts that say the best pizzarias/restaurants are not in the port/Via Toledo area, however, that is where I am staying so I would be particularly appreciative of recommendations in that area. But anywhere in Naples would be great. Would appreciate if you can include website or address also. Thanks very much.

KLouis

Pizzeria Bellini on Piazza Bellini. Although last time I went (6 years ago) it showed signs of "degeneration" (especially service-wise) compared to many previous times since my first visit in 1989. Still, the pasta al cartoccio and the sea food were excellent. I hope they stopped the downward trend.

Perche

You really should eat pizza in Naples, because it is like nowhere else. And, there are some good pizzerie near Via Toledo. The best are more or less concentrated in the historic downtown, places like Sorbillo. But on the waterfront, walkable from Via Toledo, Gino Sorbillo's son has opened up a place that is supposed to be great. 50 Kalo is also down by Via Toledo. Just go to the end till you get to the water, make a right. Both places are there. Historic center can be spooky for anyone traveling solo, female or male, unless you have a fair bit of experience with Italy, and know that Naples is not as scary as it seems. But along Via Toledo and along the waterfront you could not find any safer place to be. Nothing, absolutely nothing will happen to you, and you can go to the Sorbillo's new place, or to 50 Kalo. In Naples, you really should try to live on pizza until you've had enough. Then start with the seafood.

KLouis mentioned, very importantly, that there has been a degradation in one of his favorite places in Naples. There have been similar posts of degradation concerning restaurants in Rome, Florence, and other places. This is important to know. Many places change hands. Also, as places become famous and "make it," given the economic circumstances, they'll start replacing olive oil with palm oil, and generally making compromises.

There is a restaurant rating megasite, I don't remember the name, but I did read it's methodology. They weigh the various opinions. For example, TripAdvisor is ignored. It's mostly amateur travelers on their first trip to Italy, and they think that everything is great. It's not. Much of Italy from Rome up has terrible food in general because there are so many tourists, and they just cater to that. They don't include a TripAdvisor review unless the person has reviewed at least 20 restaurants in that city. At that point, they conclude that the person probably has some knowledge.

They also downgrade the rating based on how old it is because places tend to degenerate. Not all, but it's a real risk. Anything over a year, they won't consider. Too much risk. This, I think, is a bit of a problem with PM'd recommendations. They're not open to others to see, who might be able to say, "Hey, I went there last week, and it stinks. It's not good anymore." That has happened on this forum with publicly posted restaurant and hotel recommendations.

Case in point, in Venice a lot of the really good places close for, "maintenance" in January. BS, they make so much money they flee the cold and are on a beach in Cuba, where three fourths of the gondoliere are. They'll come back for the next festival, Carnevale, in a few weeks and reopen. After finding a few too many of the old favorites in my neighborhood closed, I decided to go to Fontego ai Pescatore. Translates roughly as factory of the fisherman. Why? I've been going there for years, but it's fairly far away from my apartment in Castello, so not often. I couldn't remember where it was, but knew that it was down a side street off of Strada Nova in Canareggio, a good walk.

I went past, not recognizing the turn off street, and went into a bar. I asked where it was. They pointed to an old man with a hat, no teeth, speaking basically venetian dialect, which I can barely understand, and he said, "you want to go there?" He took me outside, across the bridge, to a place where in the window it said, "Menu Turistico," which is the kiss of death for getting decent food in Italy, and he left me there. The place was also empty, except for a few tourist couples speaking english. I walked out.

I went back to the bar and told him that's crazy, and he said, "Do you know how easy it is to eat bad food here?" I said, "yes, I know, but where is Fontego Ai Piscatore?" He took me back outside, took the first right on the Canale Cannaregio, one of the great walks of Italy, and the first place on the right, he opened the door and asked the proprietess to give me a seat. The place was packed. She said there was no place to put me. And really, there wasn't. This place was true venetian. Italian wouldn't do, if you didn't understand at least some dialect. No written menu. But since there was no place to put me, I said, "I'm going to Fontego Ai Pescatore," and he just shrugged his shoulders. I could tell that he knew where it was, but he wouldn't tell me.

I found it. The reason I wanted to go there is because it was always reliable. The owner was also the President of the Rialto Fish Market. You can't get fresher fish than him. Even when he stepped down he still kept a stall there in the Rialto Fish Market. In the kitchen was a guy with a knife who would hold up a large fresh fish by the tail, take a sharp knife, and with one swoop, have a perfect filet. Then he'd turn it around and do the same on the other side, and there would be nothing left but head, spine, and tail, without a piece wasted. I noticed the usual owner wasn't there, nor was Mr. Magic knife.

It was pretty empty, maybe just a few couples. A unrecognizable guy came out of the kitchen and was sort of maitre'd-cum-chef. The pastas were out 15 euros, which is a lot, but there is a seasonal type of crab (not moeche) that was available and on the menu for 28 Euros. I chose that. It was not edible. The pasta was so dry that you needed a gulp of water with each byte to get it down. Plus, the portion was huge. A huge portion, after Menu Turistico, is the second kiss of death with italian food. I ate one-quarter of it, but only out of courtesy.

The other two couples in there were eating basically the same thing, telling this chef, "This is the best pasta I've ever had!" When he came to me, sheepishly, he just said in Italian, "I know, I know, can I get you a free grappa to make up for it?"

The place has degenerated totally. It's in different hands. The food is terrible. i say this only to recommend that any restaurant recommendations should be out there so that others can chime in who may have been there more recently, because after a certain number of months the reliability can go down. Many of the places that I have been to and that have been spectacular over the years, I wouldn't eat at any more, like this one.

Final example, there is a lot of seasonal pastry in Italy. Christmas is the time of Panettone. Panettone is over, and now it's time for the Carnival pastry, fritelle. I mentioned in October that it was all over the news that most of the pizza that people were eating in Italy, at least from Rome and to the North, was frozen pizza, made in Hamburg, Germany, and shipped to Italy, and sold as fresh. The news last week is that most of the fritelle, the seasonal pastry of the Carnevale season, is being made in the Ukraine, frozen, and being shipped down. I don't know how Ukraine, in a sort of state of war, is doing that, but it is.

It is easy to eat very poorly in Italy, sadly, because many visitors are seduced by being in italy, most restaurants know that most customers are tourists, and most tourists don't really imagine how it would taste if they closed their eyes and were eating the same thing back in the USA.

Italy has the best food in the world, rivaled in my opinion only by french and chinese cooking, and that's obviously subjective. But you have to be careful. If you are only there for one week, that's only 7 dinners. Don't waste any of them on bad food.

You can get good pizza in Naples near Via Toledo and the port. One other example of something being degraded is the recommendation that Pizza al Presidente in Naples is good. It is not. The owner died two years ago. It's now run by his niece, and she is just running it into the ground by living off of the name and serving junk.

fmkgb

Loved your story. Thanks for taking the time to share. Been to Naples several times for 2-3 days at a shot. My favorite city in Italy for some reason...it's gritty and real and I love it! So thankful that I'm able to squeeze in a week trip and am going to spend the whole time exploring Naples city and vicinity. Was planning on pizza (to me the perfect food) for lunch everyday but maybe it will have to be B L and D.

50 Kala got a write up from Katie Parla in NYT a few months ago so I hope it's not inundated with American tourists already but I will give it a shot--thanks. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/tr...les-italy.html

If you can remember that great restaurant review site I'd be very interested in learning the name.

If anyone else can recommend any fabulous trattorias in Naples (particularly port area) I'm still open to trying a little pasta or seafood (super spaghetti vongole anyone?)

Thanks again!

KLouis

I'd fully agree with you if you added Indian food to your list. Actually, I really mean Indian food in India not in the US or most Indian places in the UK

ShopAround

I had an excellent meal a few years ago at Hosteria Toledo, which wasn't too far from the port. Website (in Italian): http://www.hosteriatoledo.it

Perche

I'd be a little careful with that one. If you go to the website that you provided and look at the sign, there is a caricature of a fat Italian man stereotype kissing his fingers and written in english it says, "Good hot soup today."

Why would they have a sign in english, with a picture like that? Certainly not to attract the locals to eat there.

PWMTrav

If you're in a tourist location, I think you have to have some English content to attract tourists. I don't have a problem with restaurants trying to capture both locals and tourists, but I agree that you have to be careful since you don't know if that means any compromises in the kitchen or not.

Forrest Bump

This is a rather solid list: http://www.scattidigusto.it/2014/03/...ttorie-napoli/

Sorry, only in Italian (as the 99,9999% of websites)

Options #2,5 and 6 are in walking distance from the port.

The list focuses on the best bang for the buck trattorie in Naples.
As previously mentioned most are located out of reach for the casual traveler (hills or Fuorigrotta), and not easy to spot even for some local.

Just try to check beforehand whether on the day of your visit spaghetti alle vongole is on their menu. And if not do ask and they will likely arrange a dish for you.

This is because you won't find in Naples any place specifically specialized on "spaghetti alle vongole".
Of course most restaurants serve it, but is not something worth advertising, due the fact that it is a classic (summer) dish anyone makes at home.
Easy, fast and damn fantastic.

Unfortunately I don't have first hand experience in the above-mentioned businesses; my spaghetti alle vongole are second to none .

ShopAround

Not that I would necessarily judge by this, but the website doesn't have an English option - the text, the menu, are all in Italian. What you refer to doesn't look like a caricature to me, it looks like a photo of something that might be hanging on the wall. A website completely in Italian, IMHO, does not indicate to me that they cater to the tourist trade.

My memory of eating there was that there was no English menu (at least they didn't give me one) and the clientele was mostly Italian-speakers. There certainly was no Menu Turistico or anything that would have turned me off (I spend enough time in Italy to have a pretty good idea of when a restaurant should be avoided). The food was good enough for me to take note in case I ever return to Napoli and I wouldn't take back my recommendation because of a photo on their website.

Perche

You convinced me. I said I'd be cautious about any potential red flags, as
you know how easy it is to to get bad food around the port area, but it seems as if you found a good spot and know what you are talking about.

Stewie Mac

Not a regular on the Italy board, but taking the kids next summer as a change from France, and have decided on Naples rather than Sorrento for our first few days, staying at Hotel Piazza Bellini [which looks to be well located for multiple trips to Sorbillo!]

Amazed by the level both of information and of tolerance displayed by the board regulars, particularly Perche...

I will be back again, asking questions, over the next few months.

^