Overseas Citizenship of India
May 6, 2009, 9:01 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Overseas Citizenship of India
So, as far as I understand, this isn't exactly a "citizenship" so much as a lifetime permanent resident visa. However, from reading about it, it seems that while you are in India and hold an OCI card, you are considered an "Indian" and diplomatic / consular access from your country of actual citizenship might be denied.
That being the case, is it possible for an Indian citizen who has now become a naturalized citizen of another country to have a Tourist Visa / Entry Visa (this is a visa specifically for ex-Indian citizens I think) & hold an OCI card and decide which to use while entering the country depending on the purpose of the visit?
Also, while the time period to issue an OCI card is stated as 3-4 months, I've heard of time frames being far shorter. Can anyone comment?
Cheers
That being the case, is it possible for an Indian citizen who has now become a naturalized citizen of another country to have a Tourist Visa / Entry Visa (this is a visa specifically for ex-Indian citizens I think) & hold an OCI card and decide which to use while entering the country depending on the purpose of the visit?
Also, while the time period to issue an OCI card is stated as 3-4 months, I've heard of time frames being far shorter. Can anyone comment?
Cheers
May 8, 2009, 3:50 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
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That being the case, is it possible for an Indian citizen who has now become a naturalized citizen of another country to have a Tourist Visa / Entry Visa (this is a visa specifically for ex-Indian citizens I think) & hold an OCI card and decide which to use while entering the country depending on the purpose of the visit?
You cannot simply enter with an OCI, I would think...even though that during the verification procedure for obtaining the OCI, the Indian government authorities would have already verified your primary documentation.
Last edited by SuperFlyBoy; May 8, 2009 at 3:54 am Reason: syntax, clarity
May 8, 2009, 4:50 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
OCI is marketed as Overseas Citizenship but it is only a lifelong VISA which acts as a permanent residence card.
The Visa is pasted onto your foreign passport so you have to enter using that so you still have consular protections rights. You are not an Indian while in India because you use your foreign passport. The British government still offers consular and diplomatic help as they would to any British residents abroad in foreign countries.
There are some shocking (false) rumours going around that make you laugh, In London, one of the best is that once you get OCI, you lose your right to travel to the EU because you are now an Indian citizen! Another rumours says that you have to apply for American Visas and they have to be done in India. These are all false rumours started with the oldie goldies! Britain has the right to keep you out if they wanted to!
You do not need permission to reside in India from the FRRO office. You can literally turn up and live there for ever. You will obviously have to register for PAN card and all that if you take up employment. You cannot vote in elections or work for any goverment institutions and you cannot own agriculture land.
To qualify for it, you have to have Indian Ancestry (in political terms) going back, maximum, upto your grandparents (two generations). Just being Indian ethnicity does not qualify you for it.
It is simple enough to qualify if you have naturalized in another country, you just show your old indian passport, naturalization certificate and current passport to qualify.
eg. you are indian, you moved to USA, eventually you naturalized, you became USA citizen.
It can become very complicated if you are British, French or Portuguese because of the colonial period. You are British because of your ancestors moving to africa or you retain colonial citizenship somehow. you have to trace your ancestry back to India and hope it is within 2 generations.
e.g. I am born in UK as a British Citizen, My Dad was born in Africa as a british citizen, My grandad was born british before independence in India but moved to Africa. My grandad was eligable for Indian citizenship when the citizenship law was enacted in 1950 (correct me if i am wrong). I had to prove my relationship through my dad and onto my grandad to qualify for OCI. Luckilly i found my grandads old British Indian Empire Passport to prove where he was born etc etc.
every documented evidence has to be photocopied twice and self attested. That has to be submitted at the Indian Embassy/High Commission along with 35mm x 35mm passport style photos with a blue background.
The Embassy staff will provisionally accept or reject your application if you are missing something for example. Once the embassy staff accept your application, the file gets sent to Delhi where it is approved or rejected. Once approved, your certificate document is despatched to the relevant Indian embassy and once it arrives, you take your current passport and have a Visa pasted onto it and you also receive your passport style OCI certificate.
you can check the status of your application online on an Indian goverment webpage.
Mine approval took around 5 weeks and then another 2 weeks for the card to arrive in London but my cousins in America had theirs within 2 weeks and card within another 10 days. I guess because USA cases are more clear cut.
Feel free to PM me if you requre any specific information.
The Visa is pasted onto your foreign passport so you have to enter using that so you still have consular protections rights. You are not an Indian while in India because you use your foreign passport. The British government still offers consular and diplomatic help as they would to any British residents abroad in foreign countries.
There are some shocking (false) rumours going around that make you laugh, In London, one of the best is that once you get OCI, you lose your right to travel to the EU because you are now an Indian citizen! Another rumours says that you have to apply for American Visas and they have to be done in India. These are all false rumours started with the oldie goldies! Britain has the right to keep you out if they wanted to!
You do not need permission to reside in India from the FRRO office. You can literally turn up and live there for ever. You will obviously have to register for PAN card and all that if you take up employment. You cannot vote in elections or work for any goverment institutions and you cannot own agriculture land.
To qualify for it, you have to have Indian Ancestry (in political terms) going back, maximum, upto your grandparents (two generations). Just being Indian ethnicity does not qualify you for it.
It is simple enough to qualify if you have naturalized in another country, you just show your old indian passport, naturalization certificate and current passport to qualify.
eg. you are indian, you moved to USA, eventually you naturalized, you became USA citizen.
It can become very complicated if you are British, French or Portuguese because of the colonial period. You are British because of your ancestors moving to africa or you retain colonial citizenship somehow. you have to trace your ancestry back to India and hope it is within 2 generations.
e.g. I am born in UK as a British Citizen, My Dad was born in Africa as a british citizen, My grandad was born british before independence in India but moved to Africa. My grandad was eligable for Indian citizenship when the citizenship law was enacted in 1950 (correct me if i am wrong). I had to prove my relationship through my dad and onto my grandad to qualify for OCI. Luckilly i found my grandads old British Indian Empire Passport to prove where he was born etc etc.
every documented evidence has to be photocopied twice and self attested. That has to be submitted at the Indian Embassy/High Commission along with 35mm x 35mm passport style photos with a blue background.
The Embassy staff will provisionally accept or reject your application if you are missing something for example. Once the embassy staff accept your application, the file gets sent to Delhi where it is approved or rejected. Once approved, your certificate document is despatched to the relevant Indian embassy and once it arrives, you take your current passport and have a Visa pasted onto it and you also receive your passport style OCI certificate.
you can check the status of your application online on an Indian goverment webpage.
Mine approval took around 5 weeks and then another 2 weeks for the card to arrive in London but my cousins in America had theirs within 2 weeks and card within another 10 days. I guess because USA cases are more clear cut.
Feel free to PM me if you requre any specific information.
May 8, 2009, 4:56 am
#4
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Wilder scenarios have occurred, so don't want to tempt fate...
May 8, 2009, 5:06 am
#5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
I opted for the PIO, as, in the event of an emergency evac, all that it would take would be for the marine to sight the Overseas Citizen of India document and deny you the coveted space on the mode of transport...
Wilder scenarios have occurred, so don't want to tempt fate...
Wilder scenarios have occurred, so don't want to tempt fate...
In an emergency situation, i would dump the certificate and show my British passport to get out! even the certificate mentions my nationality as "GBR".
I can understand your situation, Marines are not exactly the brightest people, they are trained killers not intellects who can differentiate between words and status!
May 8, 2009, 9:08 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 297
I opted for the PIO, as, in the event of an emergency evac, all that it would take would be for the marine to sight the Overseas Citizen of India document and deny you the coveted space on the mode of transport...
Wilder scenarios have occurred, so don't want to tempt fate...
Wilder scenarios have occurred, so don't want to tempt fate...
May 8, 2009, 9:45 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
May 8, 2009, 10:56 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: cbr
Programs: QF WP (OWE) / LTG (LT OWS) | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 4,972
You have to use your foreign passport, in conjunction with the OCI, to enter the country, as I understand.
You cannot simply enter with an OCI, I would think...even though that during the verification procedure for obtaining the OCI, the Indian government authorities would have already verified your primary documentation.
You cannot simply enter with an OCI, I would think...even though that during the verification procedure for obtaining the OCI, the Indian government authorities would have already verified your primary documentation.
Can I have two visas in that overseas passport,
1. A long term entry visa which India now issues to its ex-citizens. A 5 year Multiple Entry Visa
2. The OCI "Visa"
and decide which one to use dependent on my purpose of visit.
The doubt arised because what I read on this page <http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html> about Consular access.
Yes I realise this is not a GOI webiste. I've tried to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs website for more definitive information but no luck yet.
Thanks for the informative reply d3vski. As a naturalized citizen, I'll still have my Indian passport so submitting that should probably take care of all the documentation part of the process as far as proving my Indian ancestry is concerned.
May 8, 2009, 11:26 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
SFB, I am aware I need to use my overseas passport to enter the country with OCI. My Question was -
Can I have two visas in that overseas passport,
1. A long term entry visa which India now issues to its ex-citizens. A 5 year Multiple Entry Visa
2. The OCI "Visa"
and decide which one to use dependent on my purpose of visit.
The doubt arised because what I read on this page <http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html> about Consular access.
Yes I realise this is not a GOI webiste. I've tried to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs website for more definitive information but no luck yet.
Thanks for the informative reply d3vski. As a naturalized citizen, I'll still have my Indian passport so submitting that should probably take care of all the documentation part of the process as far as proving my Indian ancestry is concerned.
Can I have two visas in that overseas passport,
1. A long term entry visa which India now issues to its ex-citizens. A 5 year Multiple Entry Visa
2. The OCI "Visa"
and decide which one to use dependent on my purpose of visit.
The doubt arised because what I read on this page <http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html> about Consular access.
Yes I realise this is not a GOI webiste. I've tried to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs website for more definitive information but no luck yet.
Thanks for the informative reply d3vski. As a naturalized citizen, I'll still have my Indian passport so submitting that should probably take care of all the documentation part of the process as far as proving my Indian ancestry is concerned.
OCI is life-long, as I understand, so it would probably replace the old visa in any case, as you would then be registered under the OCI.
However, I'm sure you could go to your local Indian consulate or High Commission to find out details.
Good luck!
May 9, 2009, 12:49 am
#10
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 297
pio is basically a "do anything you want in india" visa... its multiple entry...and its actually cheaper than getting 5 1 year visas...but the card is valid for 10+ years... just fill your pio # in the landing form on arrival and you are on your way...
no need to arrange a visa, great if something comes up at 11pm and you gotta get to india. you can take a morning flight since you dont have to sit at the consulate at 8am the next morning for 5 hours with a bundle of paperwork for a visit of 1 month max...
no need to arrange a visa, great if something comes up at 11pm and you gotta get to india. you can take a morning flight since you dont have to sit at the consulate at 8am the next morning for 5 hours with a bundle of paperwork for a visit of 1 month max...
May 9, 2009, 12:51 am
#11
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
pio is basically a "do anything you want in india" visa... its multiple entry...and its actually cheaper than getting 5 1 year visas...but the card is valid for 10+ years... just fill your pio # in the landing form on arrival and you are on your way...
no need to arrange a visa, great if something comes up at 11pm and you gotta get to india. you can take a morning flight since you dont have to sit at the consulate at 8am the next morning for 5 hours with a bundle of paperwork for a visit of 1 month max...
no need to arrange a visa, great if something comes up at 11pm and you gotta get to india. you can take a morning flight since you dont have to sit at the consulate at 8am the next morning for 5 hours with a bundle of paperwork for a visit of 1 month max...
OCI is lifetime - worth it if you don't mind having the term "citizen" therein...
May 9, 2009, 1:21 am
#12
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 297
http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html
pio is faster with less hassles...oci is better if you want a fastrack to being an indian national...pio does require that you notify police if you plan to stay in india for more than 180 days....
May 9, 2009, 2:20 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
May 9, 2009, 11:56 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
Not if your an OCI.
OCI or PIO or 5 year visas, all are worth it. It all depends on what you prefer and what your long term plans are. I did think long and hard before choosing OCI. For me, someone who is ethnically indian but having no Indian ancestry since my grandparents, its gives me an option should the UK ever descend into racial and financial anarchy. I would rather live as part of a majority in India then a minority in the UK!
OCI or PIO or 5 year visas, all are worth it. It all depends on what you prefer and what your long term plans are. I did think long and hard before choosing OCI. For me, someone who is ethnically indian but having no Indian ancestry since my grandparents, its gives me an option should the UK ever descend into racial and financial anarchy. I would rather live as part of a majority in India then a minority in the UK!
May 9, 2009, 12:00 pm
#15
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold (OW Emerald) & Jet Airways - Thank goodness i never got started.......most awful FF program
Posts: 2,385
SFB, I am aware I need to use my overseas passport to enter the country with OCI. My Question was -
Can I have two visas in that overseas passport,
1. A long term entry visa which India now issues to its ex-citizens. A 5 year Multiple Entry Visa
2. The OCI "Visa"
and decide which one to use dependent on my purpose of visit.
The doubt arised because what I read on this page <http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html> about Consular access.
Yes I realise this is not a GOI webiste. I've tried to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs website for more definitive information but no luck yet.
Thanks for the informative reply d3vski. As a naturalized citizen, I'll still have my Indian passport so submitting that should probably take care of all the documentation part of the process as far as proving my Indian ancestry is concerned.
Can I have two visas in that overseas passport,
1. A long term entry visa which India now issues to its ex-citizens. A 5 year Multiple Entry Visa
2. The OCI "Visa"
and decide which one to use dependent on my purpose of visit.
The doubt arised because what I read on this page <http://www.immihelp.com/nri/pio-vs-oci.html> about Consular access.
Yes I realise this is not a GOI webiste. I've tried to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs website for more definitive information but no luck yet.
Thanks for the informative reply d3vski. As a naturalized citizen, I'll still have my Indian passport so submitting that should probably take care of all the documentation part of the process as far as proving my Indian ancestry is concerned.
I would like to point out that according to the Indian Constitution, you cannot be a dual citizen. simply holding a passport for another country renders your Indian citizenship void. So using the india's own constitution, you are pretty safe from being classed an Indian in an emergency.