hal717200

This will be pretty interesting. I'm wondering how much of a response these ticket prices will have on neighbor islanders to go holo holo.

When I was growing up in Hilo, I remember my parents taking me to Oahu to do school shopping and what not during the summer time. I've been thinking about interisland travel for local families. I dunno about everyone else, but it just seemed that growing up if you were looking for something in particular and you couldn't find it on the island you were on, people would fly to Oahu and do shopping there. With the advent of e-commerce and the internet I think having to go to a Oahu for shopping becomes somewhat pointless.

JW74

I am an ecommerce fiend. I still need to go to Oahu to buy things. Furniture for one is impossibly expensive here. Its cheaper by far on oahu even factoring in shipping charges. Plus companies like ashley and inspiration furniture will refund my airfare or car rental if I buy more than X dollars on that trip.

Good example. Kona, not one freaking decent shoe store anywhere. You have to drive to hilo to buy shoes unless you like walmart or Kmart shoes. At today's gas prices its a 40 dollar round trip and 4.5 hours out of your day just to travel to hilo's limited choices. 89 with taxes RT to do the same on Oahu with the infinite options is a much better option for me. There isnt even a decent electronics store here in kona. I find myself flying to Oahu just to hit CompUSA for certain computer components that I need. Yes I can get em online, but if I am flying to and from Oahu, I just buy it there.

vrichard

I sure hope there will be enough people smart enough to realize the fares will get jacked back up if they are successful in driving out the competition - so fly the new carrier.
Don't be fooled.
I'll Fly Go!

(Not only have they lowered the price, they've changed the rules, too: $20 to change to a different flight, and if it's on the same day, you can change even if the original discounted booking class is not available for the flight you want to change to....)
01 BK CODE - M -
02 PENALTY - CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE.
CHANGES CHARGE USD 20.00. NOTE - ALL PENALTIES APPLY
PER FARE BREAKPOINT. CHANGESTO
DATES/ORIGIN/DESTINATION - FEE OF USD 20.00 PLUS
ADDITIONAL FARE COLLECTION WILL APPLY. PRICE THE NEW
ITINERARY USING CURRENT FARES. CHANGES TO AN EARLIER
OR LATER SAME DAY FLIGHT. WHEN CHANGE IS BEING MADE
ON THE DAY OF THE ORIGINAL FLIGHT IF TICKETED BOOKING
CLASS IS AVAILABLE ON NEW FLIGHT FEE OF USD 20.00
APPLIES. IF TICKETED BOOKING CLASS IS NOT AVAILABLE
ON NEW FLIGHT FEE OF USD 20.00 APPLIES. BOOK IN
LOWEST AVAILABLE CLASS. WHEN CHANGE IS NOT BEING MADE
ON THE DAY OF THE ORIGINAL FLIGHT FEE OF USD 20.00
PLUS ADDITIONAL FARE COLLECTION WILL APPLY. PRICE
THE NEW ITINERARY USING CURRENT FARES. STANDBY NOT
PERMITTED. ITINERARIES MAY BE REBOOKED PROVIED
PASSENGER CANCELS THE TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION
PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME. IF NOT THEN
REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
ALL TRAVEL MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN ONE YEAR FROM
THE ORIGINAL TICKET ISSUE DATE.

JW74

I don't know if that will be totally true. Will the prices go up if Mesa/Go fails? Yes. Will it go back to pre Mesa/Go's levels? Probably not. At least thats my hope. I think they will see the increased business and realize that if they dont restructure their price point on a permanent basis, they will always be susceptible to outside competition. All speculation though. I think Go will have a long run in hawaii. Minimum 5+ years before they falter, if at all. The CRJ jets are damn near perfect operationally for this market.

gemac

If the past is any indication, then if Mesa fails, prices go up to above where they were prior to Mesa coming. That's what has happened every time in the past.
If Mesa does this right, I'm thinking that they will not fail (although somebody else might).
My thought was that interisland traffic will be up, not for shopping, but for visiting friends or relatives, or taking a short vacation. Business travel might even be up, too. It would take a perfect idiot not to see the advantages of keeping fares low. While the idiots who run Hawaiian and Aloha may not be perfect, they are pretty close.

hal717200

Yes, low fares are nice. However, this will likely mean carriers will be looking for ways to save costs in other areas. If maintenance is an area that is cut back, then safety is definitely a concern. Mesa has a history of doing just that.

JW74

its one thing to say that, its another thing to post a link that shows it. If they have a history of it...let us read it.

gemac

Maintenance is part of the safety standards set by the FAA. Deliberate fraud on maintenance is punishable by jail time, I believe. Winters in Leavenworth are not nearly as nice as winters in Hawaii, I doubt that Go! execs would put their future in the hands of every maintenance guy on their staff. It would only take one disgruntled former employee to send someone up the river.

But like JW74 said, if your statement is a fact, let's see it. If it's just more of the nasty, untrue rumors that AQ and HA have been spreading about potential competitors for the last 15 years or so, please stop drinking that Kool-aid.

MileageAddict

Too funny. You Hawaiians need to learn a lesson from us folks in Virginia. Independence Air brought insanely low fares and increased frequency. Within 2 weeks of their bankruptcy, fares out of the IAD market jumped a healthy 25%. Now that is has been almost 3 months since the demise of Independence Air, fares are pretty much back to pre-competitive rates.

Fly your new carrier, support them!

hal717200

Dateline did a report on Mesa in the 90's.
http://www.ire.org/inthenews_archive/aviation.html

Let us also not forget Mesa was behind the Air Midwest crash in 2003.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X00049&key=1

TheBinaryBot

You are right about the fares going up if Mesa is booted out. It is also correct that if another carrier is forced out of the Interisland market (AQ or HA or even Island Air) the fares go up. So you have to ask yourself (if you care) would you rather have a scumbag like Ornstein taking your money back to PHX or have AQ or HA more or less keeping your money in Hawaii?

Just to clarify, if Ornstein can raise fares he will and and he won't care if you have to pay more to see auntie in Hilo or not, business is business.

I would like to know what all you people would do if a company came in and give your company competition that could cost YOU jobs and salary? I bet most would ..... and moan but as long as it happens to someone else and you can save a few bucks then screw em. Honestly, how many feel that way? Everyone is guilty of that, look at Walmart, how many local jobs and companies failed because of Walmart, all so we can save a buck or two on our Nike's made in Eastern China.

Of course, everyone can take the superferry when it shows up.

asu-ua772

Speaking of the superferry:
http://www.hawaiisuperferry.com/fares/fares.html

What do you all think of these proposed fares? Nothing to brag home about (unless you're the last-minute biz traveller), but will sure give all of the interisland carriers a run for their money come 2007.

gemac

The first of these cites disgruntled employees' tales, and minor FAA fines. Every airline has disgruntled employees and minor FAA fines. Did you read all the disgruntled NW employees on the NW forum when the NW mechanics went out on strike. They made it sound like NW planes were going to be falling out of the sky multiple times per day. What happened, of course, was nothing.

The second of these discusses the Air Midwest crash. The investigation came up with 6 causes. 3 were deficiencies at Air Midwest, one was a deficiency at Raytheon, and two were FAA deficiencies. Didn't say Boo about Mesa.

The bottom line is that all airlines maintenance procedures are dictated by the FAA. Safety is pretty much dictated by weather and airport equipment, not by maintenance.

But you desparate HA and AQ guys go on spreading rumors. It's all you have left. Hang onto that.

asu-ua772

Air Midwest: A subsidiary of Mesa Air Group
---Acquired in 1991.

gemac

So WN now charges as much as Braniff, Eastern, and Pan Am did (adjusted for inflation)? This comment seems to me to be emotional rather than reasoned.

I am in Hawaii a good part of the year. Give me your money, and I will keep it in Hawaii for you. What, you'd rather keep your money yourself? Me too.

As opposed to Loving, Caring AQ and HA, who have been so concerned about whether we will have to pay more? Sure, Ornstein might raise fares if he can, but he might also be smart enough to keep fares low to keep additional competitors from entering the market. Will he seek federal permission to violate antitrust laws to get together with his only competitor to rig prices artificially high to subsidize his other money-losing routes? I don't think so.

Actually, the rest of us do work for companies that have others giving us competition every day. You seem to think that this is a hypothetical situation for everyone in the world who doesn't work for HA or AQ, but it's the way the world is, so the question isn't what we would do, it's what we do do. We don't use political connections to violate the law to avoid competition. And if somebody else comes in, we don't sue to try to stop them. We also don't "..... and moan", because we know how much good that does - none. What do we do? We work like he!! to produce a superior product, to lower costs, and to build long-term customer relationships grounded in giving the customer the best deal we can. And we work on that every day of our careers.

People who work in other industries face the risk of competitive jobs and salary every day. And you know what else? So do you! Deregulation happened a long time ago. You just haven't figured it out yet. The way that you protect your job and salary is to acquire skills that are in demand, work hard and smart, and help your company succeed. Sometimes that isn't enough, but if you have done all that, you won't find it difficult to get another job (probably working for the company that put yours out of business - they will need more people like that to handle the added volume). Hey, I realize that all the AQ and HA employees are scared to death, but the track that they are on will predictably cause that which they fear most to occur. The only long-term hope that they have of saving their jobs are to immediately adjust their wages to market levels, throw out all their treasured work rules, and become lean and mean.

A classic MBA case study concerns Nobel, the inventor of dynamite. He got a head start on competition because of being the inventor, but he kept competitors out of the market by continually lowering prices. Potential competitors studied the market, and most decided that there wasn't a profit in it for them. A few tried, but were unable to reach the economies of scale that Nobel had. He made a huge fortune by dominating the market that way, by constantly lowering prices.

Contrast that to AQ and HA, who rig interisland fares at obscene levels that invite competition. When that competition inevitably appears, they slice their prices in half or more and use political connections and the courts to try to stifle the competitor. If the competitor fails, boom, the prices skyrocket immediately. And all this to stave off the reforms that they need to make to provide a good product at a reasonable price. Without the ability to gouge the interisland customers to support their money-losing mainland businesses, AQ and HA will likely continue to hemorrage money for the forseeable future. I will be surprised if one or both don't make a return trip to the bankruptcy courts in the next three years, given the (at least temporary) loss of the interisland cash cow.

Which business model sounds better to you?

I gotta give them this, though. They must have the world's best PR departments, if they can get even a few people to think that they are "on your side". If the rest of the management was as good at their jobs as the PR department seems to be, these companies would be competitive, successful, and profitable.