Got a speeding ticket in area without posted limits
Jun 8, 2015, 8:24 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
Got a speeding ticket in area without posted limits
I recently rented a car in Germany (I'm from the US) and on one part of the trip between Müncheberg and Berlin, I don't think there were any speed limit signs posted. Once I realized this, I had to rely on the signs signifying the entering and exiting of the commercial areas.
Today, I received a the notice from my rental car company with the speed camera printout. Sure enough, it was from the area where I first realized there were no limits posted. Do I have a valid argument? I'm sure people are expected to know when they enter a reduced speed zone, but this was literally the first time after driving 1500 km where the limits weren't posted.
Today, I received a the notice from my rental car company with the speed camera printout. Sure enough, it was from the area where I first realized there were no limits posted. Do I have a valid argument? I'm sure people are expected to know when they enter a reduced speed zone, but this was literally the first time after driving 1500 km where the limits weren't posted.
Jun 8, 2015, 8:44 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Berlin
Programs: BAEC; LH M&M; HH Diamond
Posts: 814
The minute you enter a township in Germany there is a rectangular yellow sign depicting the name of the place you are in. Once inside that area the speed limit is 50 kmh - it does not require specific posting. When you leave the same thing is posted crossed out diagonally in red.
Assume you were caught on a rural road and not an Autobahn?
If you went into a traffic-quiet zone (like a school area) there would be 30kmh signposts (black letters on round red-ringed posts).
So if your notification is accusing you of exceeding the 50kph limit in a built-up area then tough luck.
Happy Driving in The Fatherland
Assume you were caught on a rural road and not an Autobahn?
If you went into a traffic-quiet zone (like a school area) there would be 30kmh signposts (black letters on round red-ringed posts).
So if your notification is accusing you of exceeding the 50kph limit in a built-up area then tough luck.
Happy Driving in The Fatherland
Jun 8, 2015, 9:17 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
That's what I figured. Yes it was a rural road. I was cited for 79 in a 50. It's just disappointing because everywhere else I had driven had limits posted, and when I realized this area didn't it was too late. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks for explaining.
Jun 8, 2015, 7:46 pm
#4
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Location: NYC
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Got a speeding ticket in area without posted limits
Are you planning to return to Germany in the next 4-5 years? If not, you probably can ignore it. Otherwise paying it from the U.S. may prove service charge intensive.
Jun 9, 2015, 7:11 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
Yes, I do want to return to Germany soon. If what I read on the web is correct, the fine is 100 euro, which is reasonable. My last ticket in the US (10 years ago) was $100 for going 4 mph over the limit. Do you know if it will get reported to my US auto insurer? I didn't give the rental car company my insurance info.
Jun 9, 2015, 8:48 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Berlin
Programs: BAEC; LH M&M; HH Diamond
Posts: 814
Intersting one here. Two perspectives from my side (and I have a degree of experience on speeding fimes in Germany..!!!):
1. According to the official table of fines (yes, we do have that kind of thing over here) the amount due for exceeding the limit by up to 30kmh is 80. However, since this was in a hire car, it is quite possible that the hire car company has levied some kind of an admin charge on you. To whom is it that you are being asked to pay money?
2. As has been correctly pointed out if a) you plan to return to Germany in the forseeable future and b) your name is linked to the fine then if you chose not to pay, you stand a very good chance of being detained by Border Police when you next arrive and having to pay even more (we are quite efficient at that kind of thing over here).
So - and I believe this is the way you are leaning anyway - "fair cop and just pay up"
1. According to the official table of fines (yes, we do have that kind of thing over here) the amount due for exceeding the limit by up to 30kmh is 80. However, since this was in a hire car, it is quite possible that the hire car company has levied some kind of an admin charge on you. To whom is it that you are being asked to pay money?
2. As has been correctly pointed out if a) you plan to return to Germany in the forseeable future and b) your name is linked to the fine then if you chose not to pay, you stand a very good chance of being detained by Border Police when you next arrive and having to pay even more (we are quite efficient at that kind of thing over here).
So - and I believe this is the way you are leaning anyway - "fair cop and just pay up"
Jun 9, 2015, 10:59 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
The rental (hire) car company already charged me their 25 euro admin fee. I was just referring to the fine itself, which I have yet to receive. It's either 80 or 100 euro depending if it was in a "built up" area, which I'm assuming it was (not sure of that definition). Then I'll probably have to pay the bank fee if they require a wire transfer. Thankfully, the USD is strong against the euro right now.
Jun 9, 2015, 11:14 am
#8
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It will not hit your US insurance.
And chances are you will not be detained at the border. Matter of fact, I have an outstanding speeding ticket within stature of limitations with a fine that is several hundred euros from Dusseldorf mailed to my US address.
Went to Bundespolizei at DUS and applied for EasyPass-RTP. They did a background check. Even mentioned seeing a similar name associated with a business in Frankfurt. Successfully enrolled and was not detained despited being in a closed room with three officers with another on the phone running the background check. No mention of ticket.
And chances are you will not be detained at the border. Matter of fact, I have an outstanding speeding ticket within stature of limitations with a fine that is several hundred euros from Dusseldorf mailed to my US address.
Went to Bundespolizei at DUS and applied for EasyPass-RTP. They did a background check. Even mentioned seeing a similar name associated with a business in Frankfurt. Successfully enrolled and was not detained despited being in a closed room with three officers with another on the phone running the background check. No mention of ticket.
Jun 10, 2015, 6:16 am
#9
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Location: Canada, USA, Europe
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The chance of it affecting your US insurance is close to zero.
While not condoning avoiding paying speeding fines, I have a number of them outstanding for several years. After a few letters the municipalities usually give up. I'm in and out of the country every couple of weeks at a minimum, and nothing has ever flagged up...in ca the last 15 years.
While not condoning avoiding paying speeding fines, I have a number of them outstanding for several years. After a few letters the municipalities usually give up. I'm in and out of the country every couple of weeks at a minimum, and nothing has ever flagged up...in ca the last 15 years.
Jun 10, 2015, 11:07 am
#10
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA, LH, AS, AB
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Depending on how fast you were going relative to the speed limit you may not get a follow up mailing.
For example, I got tagged for 124 kph in a 100 kph zone (the electronic sign was turned on) on the A3 just outside of Cologne a couple years ago. I never got a follow up mail and I went back to Germany 3 months later.
That being said, it's a good idea to memorize speed limits for any country you're visiting. For example residential speed limits in California (and the rest of the US) is 25 mph, but it's not posted anywhere and California's unposted speed limit is 65 mph for the freeways and 55 for rural roads. In Germany it's 50 kph for cities, 100 kph for rural, and 130 kph recommended for motorways. Audi's in Germany are useful for this because they have little tick marks next to those speeds on the speedometer.
For example, I got tagged for 124 kph in a 100 kph zone (the electronic sign was turned on) on the A3 just outside of Cologne a couple years ago. I never got a follow up mail and I went back to Germany 3 months later.
That being said, it's a good idea to memorize speed limits for any country you're visiting. For example residential speed limits in California (and the rest of the US) is 25 mph, but it's not posted anywhere and California's unposted speed limit is 65 mph for the freeways and 55 for rural roads. In Germany it's 50 kph for cities, 100 kph for rural, and 130 kph recommended for motorways. Audi's in Germany are useful for this because they have little tick marks next to those speeds on the speedometer.
Jun 10, 2015, 1:36 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2014
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I'm not 100% sure because I only know the German expressions - but probably it means it depends if you were inside a city/town marked by that yellow rectangular signs.
Jun 10, 2015, 2:08 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
My car actually had the current speed limit displayed in the dashboard, but I wasn't paying much attention to it because I relying on the signs. That's how I realized I was way over the limit. With all this technology, it would have been nice to have an alert for excessive speed.
Another issue here is the "city" I went through (Lichtenow) has one main cross street and no businesses other than a petrol station, so it still felt like a rural area.
Another issue here is the "city" I went through (Lichtenow) has one main cross street and no businesses other than a petrol station, so it still felt like a rural area.
Jun 11, 2015, 12:42 am
#15
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I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm calling urban myth on this.
First of all, cheques haven't existed in the European retail banking system for a long time. There is no facility within the retail system to easily cash cheques, and certainly not from a US bank. Unless it was from a major bank (Citi, Chase, BoA, etc) the link of correspondent banks between that of the German municipality and your friend's bank would have been long, and the process therefor laborious and expensive. I can't imagine any German bank accepting a US retail cheque with dollars crossed out in favour or Euros.
First of all, cheques haven't existed in the European retail banking system for a long time. There is no facility within the retail system to easily cash cheques, and certainly not from a US bank. Unless it was from a major bank (Citi, Chase, BoA, etc) the link of correspondent banks between that of the German municipality and your friend's bank would have been long, and the process therefor laborious and expensive. I can't imagine any German bank accepting a US retail cheque with dollars crossed out in favour or Euros.