E coli outbreak - travel?
Jun 4, 2011, 5:02 am
#16
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Last months Hamburg Harbour Festival is now under suspicion aswell as the Hamburg wholesale food Market.
Experts are now also looking at meat as a cause again.
Experts are now also looking at meat as a cause again.
Jun 5, 2011, 2:02 am
#17
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: HAM
Posts: 556
Greetings from Hamburg - still alive 
A little bit statistics:
There are currently ~2.000 cases in Germany and < 20 death (mostly very elderly women)
Each MONTH in the US there are ~30.000 cases of appendicitis with approx. 100 death......
A little bit statistics:
There are currently ~2.000 cases in Germany and < 20 death (mostly very elderly women)
Each MONTH in the US there are ~30.000 cases of appendicitis with approx. 100 death......
Jun 5, 2011, 9:50 am
#18
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: HAM
Posts: 556
Not used to idea yet as I love Germany and haven't been outside Europe before, but at least the risk of illness is more controllable.
Jun 5, 2011, 11:27 am
#19
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,305
The locally-grown bean sprouts are in fact under consideration as a possible cause of the outbreak. This remains to be conclusively determined.
More importantly is the news that the healthcare facilities in and around Lower-Saxony are overwhelmed with patients at the moment. With 1,500-2,000 suspect cases this is understandable, but of concern for anyone living in, or travelling to the region.
More importantly is the news that the healthcare facilities in and around Lower-Saxony are overwhelmed with patients at the moment. With 1,500-2,000 suspect cases this is understandable, but of concern for anyone living in, or travelling to the region.
Jun 5, 2011, 4:56 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2010
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I can tell you that on a study abroad trip a friend was on someone in the group had it for a few days they think but he was ok. I would still go and continue like normal but be sure to wash your hands.
Jun 6, 2011, 8:37 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,925
Totally irrelevant! I fail to see any correlation. Nothing but obfuscation. As we say in the U.S., you're comparing apples and oranges, and even that is a stretch.
Jun 6, 2011, 10:50 pm
#22
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It is not. You fail to see it on an abstract level. Fro a statistic point of view it is highly unlikely that you will face any problems. It is even more unlikely that a young or middle aged male faces problems. If I see insane remarks about going to east asia instead of Germany, than I understand this as an insane paranoia. Currently being in the UK, I even get the feeling that parts of the UK press uses this as a campaign against Germany.
Jun 7, 2011, 10:38 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,925
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the relevancy of those supposed "statistics".
[/QUOTE]You fail to see it on an abstract level.[/QUOTE]
I'm not failing to see anything other than an obviously pathetic attempt at a diversion from the REAL WORLD issue, which, unfortunately, is not on an abstract level.
[/QUOTE]Fro a statistic point of view it is highly unlikely that you will face any problems.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, at this time.
[/QUOTE]t is even more unlikely that a young or middle aged male faces problems.[/QUOTE]
Possibly, but I'm not so much into making broad generalizations.
[/QUOTE]If I see insane remarks about going to east asia instead of Germany,[/QUOTE]
Hyperbole at its finest. (bolding is mine)
[/QUOTE]than I understand this as an insane paranoia.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
[/QUOTE]Currently being in the UK, I even get the feeling that parts of the UK press uses this as a campaign against Germany.[/QUOTE]
Well, where to begin?
I have not seen one post in this thread that makes any disparaging remarks regarding Germany. However, I have read some posts in this thread that are snide towards the OP and denigrating to Thailand and East Asia. It seems as if some posts here are overly wrought with emotion because of some perceived insult to Germany. Please point out to me in which specific post there is an actual pejorative directed at your wonderful country.
The OP asked a legitimate question which deserved a serious response, which, thankfully, most of the posts gave. None of us in this forum know his/her situation and possibly there is an additional reason why they might have a greater concern than the average traveler. Allergies? Immunogenic? Member of the traveling group that fits the current demographic of the most susceptible? Who knows, and why should we care? The OP is making a decision that is best for them.
The real problem, in an abstract sort of way, is that some posters in this thread are sensing that this situation is being used "as a campaign against Germany.". Schade.
If this is truly your "feeling" than maybe you should direct your angst towards the relevant "parts of the UK press". Perhaps, a letter or e-mail to the appropriate party? Since Russia has stopped imports, maybe you could address a communication to the proper authorities there about their "insane paranoia".
Since there was such a "rush to judgment" about Spanish produce with almost immediate finger pointing, I wonder if you can understand the Spanish farmers outrage at the "insane paranoia" of the German Agriculture Ministry?
I think it is best if everyone steps back, takes a deep breath and waits for the people in the scientific and medical community who are directly involved in solving this mystery to provide us with the answer. Personally, I don't care if the source of this bacterium is Spanish, German, Russian, Thai or Lunar, I just want a fact-based answer, without all of the hyperventilating.
Now, to bring this back on topic to the OP's query.
I'm sorry that you canceled your trip to Germany as it is an absolutely wonderful, magical country. I have traveled there almost 70 times since 2000, have made 3 trips this year already, with another 4 or so in the works. I would not have let this situation prevent me from traveling there, but you have to do what is most comfortable for you and yours.
Even my German friends that I spoke with this week are cooking all of their vegetables and only eating what is grown in their own garden. I would have eaten whatever they put on my plate, with the knowledge that forewarned is forearmed.
I wish you good luck, happy traveling and hope that you have a wonderful time in Thailand.
[/QUOTE]You fail to see it on an abstract level.[/QUOTE]
I'm not failing to see anything other than an obviously pathetic attempt at a diversion from the REAL WORLD issue, which, unfortunately, is not on an abstract level.
[/QUOTE]Fro a statistic point of view it is highly unlikely that you will face any problems.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, at this time.
[/QUOTE]t is even more unlikely that a young or middle aged male faces problems.[/QUOTE]
Possibly, but I'm not so much into making broad generalizations.
[/QUOTE]If I see insane remarks about going to east asia instead of Germany,[/QUOTE]
Hyperbole at its finest. (bolding is mine)
[/QUOTE]than I understand this as an insane paranoia.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
[/QUOTE]Currently being in the UK, I even get the feeling that parts of the UK press uses this as a campaign against Germany.[/QUOTE]
Well, where to begin?
I have not seen one post in this thread that makes any disparaging remarks regarding Germany. However, I have read some posts in this thread that are snide towards the OP and denigrating to Thailand and East Asia. It seems as if some posts here are overly wrought with emotion because of some perceived insult to Germany. Please point out to me in which specific post there is an actual pejorative directed at your wonderful country.
The OP asked a legitimate question which deserved a serious response, which, thankfully, most of the posts gave. None of us in this forum know his/her situation and possibly there is an additional reason why they might have a greater concern than the average traveler. Allergies? Immunogenic? Member of the traveling group that fits the current demographic of the most susceptible? Who knows, and why should we care? The OP is making a decision that is best for them.
The real problem, in an abstract sort of way, is that some posters in this thread are sensing that this situation is being used "as a campaign against Germany.". Schade.
If this is truly your "feeling" than maybe you should direct your angst towards the relevant "parts of the UK press". Perhaps, a letter or e-mail to the appropriate party? Since Russia has stopped imports, maybe you could address a communication to the proper authorities there about their "insane paranoia".
Since there was such a "rush to judgment" about Spanish produce with almost immediate finger pointing, I wonder if you can understand the Spanish farmers outrage at the "insane paranoia" of the German Agriculture Ministry?
I think it is best if everyone steps back, takes a deep breath and waits for the people in the scientific and medical community who are directly involved in solving this mystery to provide us with the answer. Personally, I don't care if the source of this bacterium is Spanish, German, Russian, Thai or Lunar, I just want a fact-based answer, without all of the hyperventilating.
Now, to bring this back on topic to the OP's query.
I'm sorry that you canceled your trip to Germany as it is an absolutely wonderful, magical country. I have traveled there almost 70 times since 2000, have made 3 trips this year already, with another 4 or so in the works. I would not have let this situation prevent me from traveling there, but you have to do what is most comfortable for you and yours.
Even my German friends that I spoke with this week are cooking all of their vegetables and only eating what is grown in their own garden. I would have eaten whatever they put on my plate, with the knowledge that forewarned is forearmed.
I wish you good luck, happy traveling and hope that you have a wonderful time in Thailand.
Jun 7, 2011, 11:32 am
#24
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Thanks FLYMSY. We also love Germany, and will be moving there in a couple of years.
I think it is a case of risk perception: there is a small risk of a really bad E Coli infection in Germany, which could lead to long-term dialysis or death. There is a high risk of a mild E Coli infection in Thailand. I will point out now that OH is a doctor and I am an immunologist/bacteriologist. Maybe this makes me over-cautious.
I appreciate most people think we're mad, but with allergies reducing what we can eat, and fitting the demographic profile, we feel it less risky to go to Thailand (we had to go somewhere with multiple Hyatts we could afford to maintain diamond).
Hopefully, they will find where the contaimination is soon.
I think it is a case of risk perception: there is a small risk of a really bad E Coli infection in Germany, which could lead to long-term dialysis or death. There is a high risk of a mild E Coli infection in Thailand. I will point out now that OH is a doctor and I am an immunologist/bacteriologist. Maybe this makes me over-cautious.
I appreciate most people think we're mad, but with allergies reducing what we can eat, and fitting the demographic profile, we feel it less risky to go to Thailand (we had to go somewhere with multiple Hyatts we could afford to maintain diamond).
Hopefully, they will find where the contaimination is soon.
Jun 10, 2011, 11:09 am
#26
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,305
The updated news today from the German Health Ministry is focused again on the organic sprout farm previously inspected as the source the EHEC strain.
The source was identified as: " The open Pack (Sprouts) have been in the garbage of a household in the Rhein-Sieg-Kreis, in Bonn. Two of the three family members living in this household would have eaten sprouts and were suffering EHEC from middle of May. "
Not completely 100 % scientifically conclusive, as the evidence has been consumed or disposed of previously. In Europe: 31 dead, 2988 ill, 200 severely. A few more patients being monitored in North America and elsewhere.
What does the traveller do ? Hard to say, as sprouts are stated in general warnings to potentially contain Salmonella or E.Coli. One could pack a small 3ml bottle of household bleach, and wash lettuce and vegetables in a bleach-water solution as some do. Having just returned from 6 weeks in South America, I would find that very hard to do in any restaurant setting. Better when such situations occur to just avoid or request it cooked.
The source was identified as: " The open Pack (Sprouts) have been in the garbage of a household in the Rhein-Sieg-Kreis, in Bonn. Two of the three family members living in this household would have eaten sprouts and were suffering EHEC from middle of May. "
Not completely 100 % scientifically conclusive, as the evidence has been consumed or disposed of previously. In Europe: 31 dead, 2988 ill, 200 severely. A few more patients being monitored in North America and elsewhere.
What does the traveller do ? Hard to say, as sprouts are stated in general warnings to potentially contain Salmonella or E.Coli. One could pack a small 3ml bottle of household bleach, and wash lettuce and vegetables in a bleach-water solution as some do. Having just returned from 6 weeks in South America, I would find that very hard to do in any restaurant setting. Better when such situations occur to just avoid or request it cooked.