rtalk25

http://news.flyfrontier.com/press-re...ow-fare-routes

Chicago-O’Hare to Atlanta
Oct. 2, 2014
Tues/Thurs/Fri/Sun
Aircraft: A320

Denver to Chicago-O’Hare
Mon/Tues/Wed/Fri/Sun
Aircraft: A320

St. Louis to Ft. Myers
Oct. 3, 2014
Mon/Fri
Aircraft: A319

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I noticed that DEN-MDW was being reduced in another thread, so DEN-ORD in the mix seems like it can fill some of that loss.

ORD-ATL is an interesting route addition.

I suppose it's launched for fleet utilization and increased station utilization and it might be aircraft that is used for Apple vacation flying out of ORD? Still, I'd guess that Frontier will rely on third party booking site sales since it's not that huge of a carrier in Chicago or Atlanta unless a lot of Frontier fans live in these markets to know to check flyfrontier.com for lowest fares. Frontier's booking side of the site also doesn't make it easy to figure out what cities are served nonstop. Most know DEN and west of DEN but will ordinary non frequent flyer Chicago customers know nonstop to ATL is there, and vice versa?

For some reason, this route addition seems like a Spirit route addition as well. I'm wondering if there will be increased emphasis to build up ORD/MDW, Chicago, presence for more routes or maybe from the ATL side, or maybe Frontier just adds miscellaneous routes to the network.

davywavy

It sure is. Always before, whenever Frontier invaded Delta turf the response was immediate and nuclear, going all the way back to 2002 when Frontier announced SLC-PVR - but never started it, because Delta was all over it. The most recent example was MCI-MSP, only three years ago, when Delta's response was to overlay five Frontier routes from MCI. It helped to kill MCI for Frontier.

Since the move to ULCC, everything has changed, and with this latest addition Frontier will have six routes to ATL - almost a focus city - with nary a peep out of Delta.

Delta has never responded to the Spirit incursions either, giving way to the theory that Delta believes the ULCC pick up traffic that it doesn't want - and that they may also make life just a tad more difficult for Southwest.

STL-RSW is interesting in that regard - it's a Southwest route.

Since it is the A329 (all the others are are A320) I assume it is, as you suggest, utilising the A319 used at STL for some Apple flying, as with STL-IAD.

rtalk25

a. I wonder if UST will be linked to ORD or MDW. I'm still waiting for that potential UST build up with possibly UST-DEN, and maybe UST-ILG and UST-CLE, UST-STL, but ORD-UST didn't happen. It is 300 hundred miles more than ORD-ATL which was chosen instead.

b. I wouldn't be surpised if ILG gets MDW service switched to ORD in the next schedule extension, while maybe TTN keeps MDW service. This would create a little more differentiation for Chicago-Philly, which Frontier's direction maybe headed, that is rather than frequency, have more differentation.

davywavy

The problem with UST - as I understand it - is that the winter months, January/February, can be a bit cold, and that the weather doesn't really pick up until March, when it may be a surrogate for Daytona Beach as well, for spring break.

I gather this is why UST-IAD drops from 5 x week to 3 x before Christmas (although TTN stays at 3 x) so I'm not really expecting anything much more for UST until a bit later. Always happy to be surprised, though.

CMK10

Ever since AA pulled out of STL I'm happy to see that airport get new routes ^

Earthlings

How many gates does F9 have at ORD?

rtalk25

Some were saying F9 might leave MDW for ORD. Is there significant value for it to keep it's presence at MDW, perhaps the MDW-CUN route or could even that transfer to ORD?

I liked TTN-MDW as it was so convenient and can feel easier to reach Chicago on a quick flight out of TTN, than a market like Boston, Pittsburgh or Richmond even though those cities are geographically much closer to TTN.

MDW can be more convenient than ORD with it having a cheaper cab ride to downtown, and using a less traffic prone route, and shorter Orange line ride than Blue line ride from points in downtown, and easier walk from CTA line end to Frontier gate, with exception of long MDW security lines at time.

However, I found that ORD has more hotels around it which is better for tourists into Chicago who have more options, although both sets of pax can also take cab to downtown and stay there. And I believe there is more bus service/shuttles etc. likely to ORD over MDW from Wisconsin and other points, but I'm not sure.

I'm afraid if Frontier left MDW, Southwest would exploit the exclusivity of MDW it has with downtown Chicago residents that likely are looking for a getaway.

I noticed that MDW-FLL on Southwest isn't low fare at all, even during it's "sale" event. While Spirit is over at ORD, it has no effect, unlike say BWI-FLL where Southwest is more competitive in fighting off Spirit. Not that Frontier would necessarily start that route of MDW-FLL per se, but maybe one day it'd start MDW-PBI or MDW-MIA if it kept presence in MDW.

Jerseyguy

I like F9's gate location in Concourse C. Might be small and not have much stores but its close to security and the food court isnt that far.

rtalk25

It can also be nice, quiet and peaceful when there are weather issues at MDW and all Southwest flights are delayed and their gates are full with people with no seating around, while Concourse C might not have a departing F9 flight at the time.

davywavy

That may be a key, if Frontier ever plans on flying Chicago to Florida, as seems possible these days. RSW seems a favored airport and STL-RSW goes up against Southwest.

Spirit covers ORD-Florida and Southwest covers MDW-Florida. So which competitor would Frontier prefer?

Assuming Florida, I'd stick at MDW and stick it to Southwest, but that's just me.

sdsearch

The one that won't put up giant "Bags Fly Free" banners on both sides of their gate, of course!

In other words, anyone but Southwest.

If you're a nickel-and-diming ULCC, much better to compare yourself to the (now also) nickel-and-diming (for non-elites) legacies at ORD, rather than the "everything included" giant competitor at MDW.

Southwest's "Bags Fly Free" would stick it to Frontier! What in the world about Frontier would stick it to giant Southwest???

Frontier wants to make money, not "stick it" to anyone (if that doesn't make them money)!

rtalk25

AirTran used to compete against Southwest at MDW for the Florida service, and that's lost because Southwest's acquisition of AirTran. It didn't offer free checked bags but had free carry-on bags. Anyways bags don't fly free on Southwest - it's included in the ticket fare.

I think if Frontier added Florida service out of Chicago, it'd be a low key kind of notice, but all the Frontier fliers out of Chicago that use Frontier for TTN/ILG, DEN and westbound, IAD, CLE, ATL, CUN/international etc. would get emails about the addition of new destination service, flyfrontier.com and third party sites whichever that Frontier still uses would show the Florida fares. Maybe the local Chicago news or newspapers would mention it. How is Frontier's additions in IAD being covered in DC?

I suspect in Cleveland, Frontier route additions make the news and in Philly, route additions/deletions and new service out of TTN, ILG and ACY generally make the Philly news (atleast it's published in the Inquirer) although not mentioned that much on the local network broadcasts.

I still find MDW-FLL very high and some of the other MDW-Florida routes not all that low.

Maybe Frontier could consider moving it's FLL ops to MIA, as FLL has Spirit, Southwest and JetBlue, but MIA has no low fare carriers and Frontier is agile enough without much FLL service anyways to move airports. I've been down there but not local but read that MIA is closer to South Beach. It could be attractive for those in Chicago (and there are a lot of people in that market) who need an escape from the frigid cold winter for a short South Beach/MIA run. One wouldn't need a rental car if landing at MIA assuming the beach and hotel, and might be able to fit belongings in one bag. Maybe an F9 fare would be $200 r/t all in, probably a lot less than Southwest that will sell close to $350 r/t all in.

The other benefit is AA doesn't service MDW since AA has it's hub at ORD. It'd be a unique route which ULCCs like to operate sometimes (e.g. Spirit launching ORD-OAK for example). The only issue is moving to MIA might be neutral for DEN customers as F9 would have to compete against AA over UA and WN, and IAD would be competing against AA again. IAD-FLL is an exclusive route by F9 now that United dropped it.

davywavy

Lower fares? Southwest is not always so cheap these days, you do pay for those "free" bags.

Of the three routes announced yesterday, although the bookings are still small in number, of course, within that twenty four hour period the leader is STL-RSW which competes directly with Southwest.

Within that the days that are booking best are the Monday flights, the cheaper flights.

Southwest has done everything in its power to stick it to Frontier - it still is - so while Frontier may never be more than an irritant to the giant Southwest, I'd rather Frontier irritated Southwest than (the kindred) Spirit.

N830MH

Right, there is problem. The weather will be so extremely cold. The weather in Chicago is very bad. Which is why the flight is cancelled or delayed. Due to weather. I think they have wait for Spring. If the weather is good. They will fly out ORD again sometime in between end of March or early April 2015.

davywavy

As an addendum to that, STL-RSW has been bumped up from 2 x weekly to 3 x weekly (additional Wednesday flight) from November 19.

Ir will be interesting to see if this holds with the schedule extension this week-end (as per Facebook), because frequencies - not just routes - are becoming more and more seasonal.