Jerseyguy

Translation: The rules don't apply to me even though I agreed to them when I purchased my ticket.

JeffCO

I would totally use my Frontier miles on their flights to NZ.

JeffCO

I flew this weekend and as it happened didn't need more than a personal item bag, but I felt like I was wasting my Summit experience by not using the overhead. That feels a little perverse, but it's also the case that when I don't need the overhead I don't care about boarding first either, in fact I prefer more time stretched out in the terminal seats. Since I usually try to get an aisle seat, if there were no overhead space issues I would be hard pressed to think of why I would want to board early.

I did note that the gate attendants were no longer bothering to size everyone, only people with visibly overstuffed carry on luggage. It also looked like the FAs had new uniforms, though maybe they were just looking snappier than usual?

Jerseyguy

The ironic thing is Frontier doesn't serve NZ, yet neither does UA

As much as I do support F9, I do say that checking everyone is a waste of time. Bags that are clearly not oversized, needn't be checked. Though unfortunately these days people get all pissy when you single them out for some reason, probably because they know they are doing something wrong. So you can't win but it does take time and resources to check everyone, so let the haters hate and do the common sense thing. This may have been an anomaly unless you saw it at multiple gates at DEN.

rtalk25

It might just reduce the pitch to Southwest's pitch, rather than Spirit pitch. Overall in service, I think Frontier will settle somewhere a notch above Spirit, notch below Southwest, two notches below JetBlue and Virgin, while offering some low fare service to non Southwest markets, like MDT, GSO, TYS and MSN.

It's amazing that Spirit does well in some markets like ACY-FLL. I looked in October, and while there are some $70 fares, add a bag fee of $30, and seat selection, and the fact the seats are less comfortable, and the FF program sucks, the fare/fees are higher than US out of PHL, or comparable Southwest service out of BWI. Southwest deletes it's nonstop on FLL-PHL but it offers a FLL-TPA-PHL just one itinery, and it's priced just a little above Spirit. IMO, Southwest offers a much better value, but the Spirit seat selection shows much of the plane seats already as reserved! This is a day I was looking at in October. Frontier's schedule doesn't go that far out.

US is pricing competitive to So. Florida even after Southwest's exit, and Spirit seems to have a captive audience, so I'm not sure if Frontier will expand in PBI/FLL from TTN/ILG this winter. Once, usairways.com is completely closed, and it's only americanairlines.com, I'm sure the pricing will be higher, that Frontier might thrive a bit more unless Spirit expands in PHL and both are splittling the ULCC market. Or, JetBlue competes. Right now, the pricing is higher from AA's site.

Even Spirit is better in that aspect regarding published schedule. Spirit also offers daily service on most of it's routes, even when they are seasonal. I don't value that so much, but some do, but overall, I suspect Frontier will offer more comfortable seats, more stretch per plane than Big Front seats, refundable fares, wider network, and a better FF program that it will still be a notch above Spirit.

davywavy

Interesting - and very positive - commentary on it here:

http://m.stardem.com/opinion/editori....html?mode=jqm

"No such thing as 'bags fly free'

Any airline that says “bags fly free” is fooling passengers. The cost of transporting bags is included in tickets. Those who fly light subsidize people who fly with an assortment of bags. It’s an indisputable fact. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch, and there ain’t no such thing as a bag that flies free.

So, by helping people fly for less — by offering them the option to save money by leaving bags at home — Frontier creates headlines such as this from Monday’s New York Times: “Denver-based Frontier Airlines now charging for bags.”

The more accurate headline would be: “Denver-based Frontier Airlines creates option to not pay for bags.”

The airline is offering a discount, just as cable companies offer lower fees to customers who don’t want Showtime and HBO. Media types, and some of their readers, cannot see this. That’s because they’re helplessly confused by old pricing structures that bundle costs and pretend to give away sodas, snacks and free rides for bags. Discerning consumers, who avoid confusing hidden fees as freebies, will avail themselves of the option for better deals."

universitylad

Exactly my thought. How long have the cookies been gone for? I can't imagine they are still handing them out?

I never completely understood the Frontier/Midwest Merger. They merged and then completely shut down the Midwest Cities. It's impossible to fly now from MKE to the east coast without flying to Denver first. I haven't flown them in years now, but I used to fly Midwest a lot.

inY

Actually, the rules changed after I purchased the ticket. But I was grandfathered. And my bag fit in the sizer, which I checked before the GA came. It was more for the protest value of putting a small backpack in the sizer to get a stamp.

lowfareair

This is such a non-issue to me, simply because Frontier offers a bundled option at a decent price that beats out the legacy carriers. For example, my parents are electing to pay the extra $100 roundtrip for the classic plus fare when they travel TTN-IND in July because they are getting:

-A refundable ticket
-Stretch (Economy Plus) seats in row 2
-Free carry on and checked bag
-Free drinks (including 1 booze)

There are other benefits, but these are what made them go for it. The great thing? It's still $100 cheaper than the cheapest US Airways flights PHL-IND and it is not on a regional jet.

Now, F9 won't always be cheaper, but having both a bundled and unbundled option allows them to get both types of leisure travelers.

FCfree

Unbundling is good in theory, but the bottom line is whenever you want to fly somewhere, you need to check each airline and understand their rules.

When this was first announced, I look at a flight between DEN and MCI. The economy fare was $82 on F9 and the WGA fare was $92 on WN. I know I am going to bring a carry on and check a bag. That is $40 on F9 and free on WN. Is it really rocket science to figure out which one is a better deal?

I just did another test as I am typing this. DEN-MKE on Aug 10, return Aug 16. Southwest, $290 r/t (outbound non-stop, return connect through MCI). Frontier Economy, $348 r/t (non-stop both directions).

No reason you can't go out on WN and return on F9, if the non-stop is important to you both ways. Just add those bag fees and carry on fees before determining the total price.

From what I am seeing, if you assuming you are going to have one CHARGED carry on and one checked bag, WN is pretty consistently cheaper.

Granted, there is some value in the STRETCH seating. If you want to pay F9's upcharge for that, go for it. As for drinks, its $5 on SWA. Don't over-value the free drink on F9. If an adult beverage is important to you, plan for another $5 per flight per drink on WN. That part has always been unbundled.

Bottom line, unbundling is nice, but its pretty easy to estimate how many checked and carry on bags you are going to have. Add the price of those and then see who is really cheaper. My bet -- its Southwest.

lowfareair

Well sh!t, let me call Indigo...

Hey Mr. Franke, it's lowfareair. Listen, this one guy on a website found a hypothetical situation where Southwest is cheaper than Frontier. Bill... Bill, I know you may think that this is just one route on one day, but Southwest competes on every single route that Frontier flies, and the poster figured out that EVERY passenger will have a large carry-on AND a checked bag ... Jesus, Bill, I don't need to hear your arguing; just shut it down!

/snark

Let's do a quick search, with actual dates - DEN-PHX Jun 14-21 (Sat-Sat, a typical leisure trip) is showing as $138 r/t on Frontier or $212 on Southwest for the cheapest flights. A full-size carry-on AND a checked bag (because everyone has both, right?) would still make it only $208 on Frontier. Just a checked bag makes it $168 roundtrip. It sounds like anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal?

When you assume, you make an @ss out of u. Most people aren't checking bags if there is a fee, and it's even rarer to see someone who checks a bag bring a full-size carry-on onboard as well.

Frontier has been competing with Southwest on fewer and fewer routes with their new strategy of smaller communities with less than daily service. This bundled or a la carte choice works well against the legacies (who usually have their Express carrier in the small cities), and will keep the playing field fairly level with Southwest.

Menko

My wife and I stopped our 25% discount booking last night, attempting to fly from STL to IAD. The "special" fare for two, flying Tuesday's for one week, came out to only $215.50. That seemed like super deal at first, but we stopped the booking after we learned there were all these add-on checked baggage and carry-on baggage fees. Then there are the reserved seat charges and who knows what else??? - The wife and I decided to simply hold off and wait for a better deal with a major airline, or simply drive somewhere else at our convenience. - Flying is definitely no longer any fun!!!

OldRoyal

It all depends how you look at it. Are flyers that travel in the summer subsidizing the deicing process for those booking flights in winter? Should passengers on planes that get deiced be billed for the process? Or how about the Freddie Laker approach of charging for bathroom access?

My biggest problem with unbundling is that it makes if difficult for consumers to make an apples-to-apples price comparison. There has to be some reasonable middle ground.

How about this: If it is a service is either essential (deicing, bathroom use) or commonly used by a majority of passengers (seat assignments, carry on item, the first checked bag, beverages), the FTC should require the fee to ADVERTISED (and published on reservation systems) as part of the ticket price.

Note that I said "advertised," not "included." Airlines would still be free to charge for bags, or offer a discount to a customer that does not check a bag, but would no longer be able to get away with advertising a lower price, only to have the occasional traveler later learn that he is actually paying significantly more than than he thought.

This is really no different than the airlines' previous practice of publishing fares that didn't include taxes and surcharges. Carriers were advertising the base price to Europe and then throwing on a mandatory fee, in addition to taxes. A consumer had no easy way to compare published prices. On a recent flight to Europe, my base fare was roughly $300 and one of the airline fees was $400. Should the carrier have been permitted to advertise $300 as the fare? Most reasonable people would say no. That's why the FTC forced all carriers to advertise and promote fares that included all of these charges.
.

iahphx

Carry-on bag fees are like resort fees: they are fundamentally evil and wrong. They exist only to make your airfare appear to be cheaper than it really is.

The jury is out as to whether this will be a successful business strategy in the USA. People hate Spirit for fees like this. So far, it hasn't stopped their financial success, but there are certainly some signs that their customer base is wising-up to the practice. I'm not sure what will happen in the future.

Frontier had the chance to be the low fare airline that didn't suck. They blew it. One of the worst airline business decisions of the past 5 years, IMHO, since America doesn't need another Spirit (it needs an Easyjet). But then Frontier management team has made other poor decisions, too. A shame.

3Cforme

Yeh, Easyjet - just what America needs.

Examples of types fees from Easyjet's fee page:

Cancellation fee (per passenger, per flight)

Flight change fee (per passenger, per flight)*

A.Online
B.Telephone/At the Airport

Minimum & maximum hold luggage fee (bought online) (per item, per flight)*

Hold luggage fee (at airport)*

A.Per flight (at Bag Drop desks)
B.Per flight (at boarding gate)

Excess weight fee

A.Per kilo (online)*
B.Per kilo (at the airport)

Small sports equipment

A.Per flight (online)
B.Per flight (paid at the airport)

Large sports equipment

A.Per flight (online)
B.Per flight (paid at the airport)

Minimum and maximum allocated seating charges

A.First row (Extra Legroom)
B.Overwing (Extra Legroom) /Up Front
C.Other seats

Infant charge (per infant, per flight)

Admin fee

Group booking fee

Administration fee for insurance letters and printed flight confirmations