uk1

Fair enough.

jbcarioca

I suppose I must agree too. There are not very many cases on which uk1 and I have disagreed, so those few must be cherished. Possibly over a nice calvados.

jbcarioca

I like both Gourdon and Bar sur Loup, but did not think of Bar sur Loup in an orange context. I should be more observant!

stimpy

Just Google "bar sur loup orange" and you will see. Or just spend some time there. You can't miss all the orange.

jbcarioca

Partly true. The busses pay Saint-Paul decent revenue and the tourists who buy tends to spend quite a lot on those shops lining Rue Grande. There are lots of tourists who come and stay in our lovely new car park which they paid for, but they don't have much use for the nice sanitation plant that they paid for nor the nice little elementary school that their revenues pay for.

Were Saint_Paul positioned as is the lovely Villefranche I am sure it would do much better.

Factually the whole departement is largely paid for by tourists. In Saint-Paul itself over 50% of the residential tax base is of non-residents, making it easier for all the true residents. The one-time mayor of Saint-Paul Yves Montand did huge benefit for the tax base by recruiting his acquaintances like
Roger Moore (whose giant Blue Bentley was highly visible), James Baldwin and others who in turn brought more people to pay more tax.

bzcat

Elite LAX... I hope if you don't mind I bump your thread... I'm planning a similar trip for later this year.

Mrs bzcat and I are planning a grand tour of the Mediterranean coast from Barcelona to the Italian boarder for 12 - 14 days.

We plan on flying into BCN (LAX-JFK-BCN) and flying back from NCE (NCE-CDG-LAX or NCE-LHR-LAX). A few basic questions...

1. Is 12-14 days long enough or will we be rushing a bit? I was thinking maybe 4 or 5 nights in Spain, 3 or 4 nights around Nimes or Marseille area, and the remaining time in Nice or Monaco.

2. What's the best way to travel from Catalonia to Provence? I imagine train would be the best option.

3. What's the best way to see Provence and the Riviera? Rental car?

jbcarioca

1. 12-14 days is pushing it but then those of us who love the area never have enough time there, so you will do well.

2. Train is an easy option, but some of us prefer to drive. Stimpy and I have both posted to that effect several times. You will want to drive anyway to see the many places that are not exactly on the beaten track. Driving is easy, because there is excellent 130kph autoroute the entire way when you are moving from place to place. You can often get a cheap price on a one way rental BCN-NCE with Hertz using their EU transfer desk. The only problem is that you cannot plan ahead.
http://www.hertz-transfer.eu/index.php?lang=GB

Barcelona-Nimes is about four hours, so the distance is manageable. You'll probably want to see Perpignan also, so it will be even shorter.

3. The rest of the area is by far the most pleasant with a rental car. There are wonderful places to discover all around and you will certainly discover some special ones by yourself.

stimpy

If you can't get a good price on a car from BCN, take the train to the nearest station in France and rent a car there. I think every TGV station in France has Hertz and Avis and sometimes others.

If you drive from BCN, another fun option is to drive up to Andorra and experience real Catalan culture. And cheap petrol and cigarettes. You can then descend the mountain and visit Toulouse and/or Carassone which is a very interesting medieval village. Try the excellent Hotel de Cite. Then continue along the coast.

bzcat

I do plan on visiting Andorra and Pyrenees so maybe rental car is the way to go for the entire trip.

How long does it take to drive from Barcelona to Andorra? Distance wise, it looks very short but I wonder if it is within easy day-trip range. I'm used to driving hundreds of kilometers in the US between cities so sometimes we see the distance between 2 points in Europe and apply the same assumption about speed and accessbility, which may not be true.

jbcarioca

Where there are autoroutes the speeds in France and Germany are higher than in the US. The speed limit is 130kph (83MPH) on most of Spain, France and Italy autoroutes, and in Germany there are still quite a few areas with no limits at all. Remember, lane discipline is serious, stay to the right unless you're passing or turning.

I hope Stimpy has the expected times for BCN-Andorra for you, I have not driven that route for several years. BTW, Stimpy lived in Cagnes sur Mer while I was living in Saint-Paul de Vence, although we do not know each other.

Airlib

Google says the Barcelona - Andorra car trip is around three hours, but if I remember correctly from my last trip it's mostly small mountainous roads which can be tiring to drive on (albeit scenic!).

stimpy

No, it is actually quite fast from Barca to Andorra. Only a little slowness getting out of the Barca metro area. I'm a bit of a fast driver and I recall it took about 2 hours the last time. Passing through Andorra takes a while and descending into France is slow and winding, but the road up from Barca is mostly fast.

I drove up after eating a nice lunch in Barca, checked into the Crowne Plaza Andorra and had plenty of time to relax before dinner.

bzcat

After some more research, I have come up with the following proposed itinerary. Your opinions and suggestions please...

Day 1. Arrival at BCN, walk around Old Town area
Day 2. La Rambla, Barcelona Cathedral
Day 3. Museu Picasso, Aquarium
Day 4. Montserrat
Day 5. Pick up rental car real early, drive towards Andorra; spend a couple of hours then head towards Perpignan France. Take A9 and try to make it to Nīmes by 8 or 9 pm.
Day 6. Nīmes: Les Arenes, Maison Carree etc. Pont du Gard
Day 7. Montpellier, Viaduc de Millau
Day 8. Avignon, Arles, Aix-En-Provence, take A8 to Nice
Day 9. Take coastal route to Saint Tropez, Cannes, Antibes, Biot
Day 10. Walk around Nice, Musee Matisse, Cap Ferrat
Day 11. Eze, Moyenne Corniche to Monaco, La Turbie, Menton, San Remo (if time permitting)
Day 12. Depart NCE

I know Day 5 will be a challenge as there will be a lot of driving. I was told Nīmes is a good mid-point between Barcelona and Nice and it is ideal place to be based for a few days to explore the area. But if you have other suggestions, please feel free to share.

Thanks

jbcarioca

This is a hugely ambitious itinerary which will have you driving all the time with almsot no time to see anything or enjoy your surroundings. I recommend dropping about half your list of places and spend more time in each. Almost every p[alce you mention could justify several days by itself.

I do not want to be arbitrary and select which places to see. I would certainly spend time in Arles rather than Nimes if you must choose.

uk1

bzcat

I wouldn't know where to start with this ... and to put it mildly I agree with jbcarioca.

IMHO you are completely on the wrong track with your "plan" which seems to be just a list of places that's caught your eye.

I'm not certain how to comment productively other than to say it would be better if you simply listed a start (BCN) an end point (NCE) and have a single or at most 2 stopoff points in between where you spend a few days in each with say a couple of days in BCN three nights in NCE. There's currently no apparent logic or wheighting to your list of place names and all that will probably happen is that you'll not really see much of a long list of names. The worst of all worlds rather than the best of all worlds.