And Hifly is back again! (HEL-MIA)
Jun 27, 2016, 10:09 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: AFKL PLT, BA Gold, SK Gold, AY Gold, A3 Silver, LH FTL, IHG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 408
And Hifly is back again! (HEL-MIA)
I was just checking my reservation on AA's "my reservations" when I noticed that my MIA-HEL segment is now operated by Hifly 343...
And it sure is, here is the message from Finnair: https://www.finnair.com/us/gb/flightinfo
According to www, the flight is operated with Hifly A340-300, which sure has far from fancy business class seats based on the information on Hifly's website. Still, AY's website claims that business class has fully flat seats..
I'm traveling on AA J-award tickets, so now I'm wondering how it'll work if I want to get rebooked to other OW flights, do they treat award tickets as revenue tkts, or are they only trying to find award space on other airlines (which most likely will be impossible as it is the busiest season of the year)?
And it sure is, here is the message from Finnair: https://www.finnair.com/us/gb/flightinfo
According to www, the flight is operated with Hifly A340-300, which sure has far from fancy business class seats based on the information on Hifly's website. Still, AY's website claims that business class has fully flat seats..
I'm traveling on AA J-award tickets, so now I'm wondering how it'll work if I want to get rebooked to other OW flights, do they treat award tickets as revenue tkts, or are they only trying to find award space on other airlines (which most likely will be impossible as it is the busiest season of the year)?
Jun 27, 2016, 11:20 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold
Posts: 428
So AY seems to have a shortage of aircrafts, (DEL also cancelled between July 5th-10th.
9H-SUN has 24J/271Y and looks like lie-flat or angled-flat. CS-TFX and CS-TFW look a lot nicer, but they are A340-500 and AY informed that the plane type is A340-300.
9H-SUN has 24J/271Y and looks like lie-flat or angled-flat. CS-TFX and CS-TFW look a lot nicer, but they are A340-500 and AY informed that the plane type is A340-300.
Jun 27, 2016, 11:27 pm
#3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Platinum
Posts: 422
Thanks for the warning!
Checked my MIA-HEL flight on July and the plane type had changed from 330-300 to 340-300. Called Finnair and got myself re-routed. Flying back with AA 777-300ER and then AY A350-900 from LHR. Can't wait to see the J cabin of the 300ER and compare it to the A350-900 right after that.
I asked the call center guy if he could book me on an AY codeshare on the AA flight because I want the AY+ points and after a little wait (maybe asking his manager?) he was able to do that. Kudos for Kajaani!
Checked my MIA-HEL flight on July and the plane type had changed from 330-300 to 340-300. Called Finnair and got myself re-routed. Flying back with AA 777-300ER and then AY A350-900 from LHR. Can't wait to see the J cabin of the 300ER and compare it to the A350-900 right after that.
I asked the call center guy if he could book me on an AY codeshare on the AA flight because I want the AY+ points and after a little wait (maybe asking his manager?) he was able to do that. Kudos for Kajaani!
Jun 27, 2016, 11:36 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
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Posts: 6,058
Jun 28, 2016, 12:36 am
#5
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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Fix your *€%&# booking page, Finnair!
Originally Posted by Finnair.com
When you buy tickets through finnair.com, the operating airline is shown on the ‘Select Flights’ page.
Because YOU chose to remove this information from the 'Select Flights' page and move it to an obscure click-to-pop window. Anyone who booked this, even after this announcement, I hope you bash them for not clearly displaying vital information.
Jun 28, 2016, 12:51 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
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Posts: 8,752
So on routes where there are direct codeshares and AY metal flights, like LHR or NRT, there's no way of knowing who operates (unless you know the schedule by heart) since there's not even a flight number visible at this step. How on earth have they succeeded in making such a bad booking engine? They've really gone out of their way in trying to get rid of as much information as possible. 
Jun 28, 2016, 1:34 am
#7
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum (oneworld Emerald), Bonvoy/Radisson/Hilton Gold
Posts: 149
So on routes where there are direct codeshares and AY metal flights, like LHR or NRT, there's no way of knowing who operates (unless you know the schedule by heart) since there's not even a flight number visible at this step. How on earth have they succeeded in making such a bad booking engine? They've really gone out of their way in trying to get rid of as much information as possible.
Jun 28, 2016, 1:51 am
#8
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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Posts: 14,174
The intended way to know is that there is a little icon displaying the tail fin of each operating carrier.
However, Finnair did not make icons for all operating airlines. This means that the only visual cue is flights were no icon is displaying - then you know it is a bad flight.
And of course, you can click on every option in the list to discover flight numbers and operators. But that is hiding vital information IMHO. The Finnair statement is false. The operating carrier is not shown. There is an option for savvy bookers to find it, but is isn't shown.
However, Finnair did not make icons for all operating airlines. This means that the only visual cue is flights were no icon is displaying - then you know it is a bad flight.
And of course, you can click on every option in the list to discover flight numbers and operators. But that is hiding vital information IMHO. The Finnair statement is false. The operating carrier is not shown. There is an option for savvy bookers to find it, but is isn't shown.
Jun 28, 2016, 4:58 am
#9
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,182
They are showing it in the GDS:
Interesting is that BA hasn't updated their codeshare operator (and aircraft type) yet:
As per EU directive 2111/2005 airlines have to disclose the operating carrier and owner of the aircraft, so its puzzling why AY doesn't take good care to display it in the web/online booking process.
Code:
TN07JULMIAHEL
** AMADEUS TIMETABLE - TN ** HEL HELSINKI.FI 07JUL16 14JUL16
1AY:BA6098 147 MIA HEL 2 2230 1530+1 0 09MAY16 27OCT16 333 10:00
2 *AY 008 147 MIA HEL 2 2230 1530+1 0 07JUL16 15AUG16 343 10:00
3AA:AY4031 6 MIA JFK 8 1400 1700 0 CONNECT JFK 757
AY 006 6 JFK 8 HEL 2 1740 0850+1 0 09JUL16 20AUG16 333 11:50
>doay008/07jul
DOAY008/07JUL
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* AY 8 9 TH 07JUL16
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
MIA 2230 TH JCDIYBHKMPT/HS 343 10:00
LVSNQOZRGWX/HS
E/HS
HEL 1530 FR 10:00
COMMENTS-
1.MIA HEL - AIRCRAFT OWNER HI FLY TRANSPORTES AEREO
2.MIA HEL - OPERATED BY HI FLY FOR FINNAIR
3.MIA HEL - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
4.MIA HEL - ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
5.MIA HEL - 1/ MOVIE
6.MIA HEL - 2/ TELEPHONE
7.MIA HEL - 4/ AUDIO PROGRAMMING
8.MIA HEL - 7/ DUTY FREE SALES
9.MIA HEL - 9/ NON-SMOKING
10.MIA HEL - 10/ SHORT FEATURE VIDEO
11.MIA HEL - 12/ IN-SEAT POWER SOURCE
12.MIA HEL - 15/ IN-SEAT VIDEO PLAYER/LIBRARY
13.MIA HEL - SECURED FLIGHT
14.MIA HEL - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
)>
Code:
DOBA6098/07JUL
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA6098 9 TH 07JUL16
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
MIA 2230 TH JCDRIYBHKML/HS 333 10:00
VNSOQG/HS
HEL 1530 FR 10:00
COMMENTS-
1.MIA HEL - COMMERCIAL DUPLICATE - OPERATED BY
FINNAIR
2.MIA HEL - AIRCRAFT OWNER FINNAIR
3.MIA HEL - OPERATIONAL LEG AY 0008
4.MIA HEL - ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
5.MIA HEL - 9/ NON-SMOKING
6.MIA HEL - SECURED FLIGHT
7.MIA HEL - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
8.MIA HEL - CO2/PAX* 517.72 KG ECO, 1,035.44 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
333 C 999 M 999
>
Jun 29, 2016, 9:16 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 22
Disappointed with Finnair
I was booked in business HEL-MIA, and was disappointed to hear of the service substitution at such late notice. After a bit of online research, it is clearly a downgrade by Finnair. When you read that Thomas Cook Airlines travellers complaining about Hi Fly, even in their business class, you know you are not in for a good experience. No power outlets, minimal inflight entertainment, no advance meal reservations, unfriendly crew, etc. I've never experienced a situation where a full-service airline wet-leases what is clearly a sub-standard operator for a scheduled mainline route.
Having booked through AA, their systems are still not reflecting the change of operator, but luckily for me, AA was brilliant in providing alternate transport on a scheduled carrier.
When calling Finnair to find out details, the sales agents were polite and apologetic. They weren't however able to provide much background. One claimed they were advised on Monday that the service would be flown by HiFly for July into August.
What I don't get is that they did the replacement just one week before the HiFly service was to begin. You would think decisions like this take a lot more time to organize - contracts, crews, operations, etc. Could it be that Finnair made the decision much earlier, but left it till last minute in order not to deter people from booking the flights if they knew they would be flying on old planes with sub-standard service?
Regardless of the reason, this is poor customer care on Finnair's part. This was going to be my first trans-continental business class flight with Finnair, and I now realize that you can't book Finnair with confidence.
Having booked through AA, their systems are still not reflecting the change of operator, but luckily for me, AA was brilliant in providing alternate transport on a scheduled carrier.
When calling Finnair to find out details, the sales agents were polite and apologetic. They weren't however able to provide much background. One claimed they were advised on Monday that the service would be flown by HiFly for July into August.
What I don't get is that they did the replacement just one week before the HiFly service was to begin. You would think decisions like this take a lot more time to organize - contracts, crews, operations, etc. Could it be that Finnair made the decision much earlier, but left it till last minute in order not to deter people from booking the flights if they knew they would be flying on old planes with sub-standard service?
Regardless of the reason, this is poor customer care on Finnair's part. This was going to be my first trans-continental business class flight with Finnair, and I now realize that you can't book Finnair with confidence.
Jun 29, 2016, 10:02 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat and several other cards
Posts: 645
I was booked in business HEL-MIA, and was disappointed to hear of the service substitution at such late notice. After a bit of online research, it is clearly a downgrade by Finnair. When you read that Thomas Cook Airlines travellers complaining about Hi Fly, even in their business class, you know you are not in for a good experience. No power outlets, minimal inflight entertainment, no advance meal reservations, unfriendly crew, etc. I've never experienced a situation where a full-service airline wet-leases what is clearly a sub-standard operator for a scheduled mainline route.
Jun 29, 2016, 1:19 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,058
Very probably also this is caused by severely delayed deliveries of new A350s from Airbus, making them run out of planes. Obviously they should have received one more new plane in July, but just like all the previous ones, this one seems to be badly delayed as well.
And delivery of LWG was not planned for July.
Jun 29, 2016, 3:29 pm
#14
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Plat (OWE)
Posts: 493
no J sale expected, a majority of people who have booked this "LOL" (Light Business Concept) flight just do not care. It is just a business class flight as any other KBV, HKT or similar "LOL" segment. Tons of holidaymakers, families and similar non-FTer's who do not have a faintest idea what the carrier change will mean in this context.
Some seasoned FF's will surely change their schedule but AY can easily cover most of the losses by offering more or less pricey upgrades to ecomony class holidaymakers and sell even more economy seats.
EDIT: even though MIA flights are not supposed to be LOL flights anymore (since ~May ?) the clientele is more or less LOL during the peak of holiday season
Last edited by ff_flyer; Jun 29, 2016 at 3:56 pm
Jun 29, 2016, 4:22 pm
#15
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
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Posts: 7,961
Wrong answer
no J sale expected, a majority of people who have booked this "LOL" (Light Business Concept) flight just do not care. It is just a business class flight as any other KBV, HKT or similar "LOL" segment. Tons of holidaymakers, families and similar non-FTer's who do not have a faintest idea what the carrier change will mean in this context.
Some seasoned FF's will surely change their schedule but AY can easily cover most of the losses by offering more or less pricey upgrades to ecomony class holidaymakers and sell even more economy seats.
EDIT: even though MIA flights are not supposed to be LOL flights anymore (since ~May ?) the clientele is more or less LOL during the peak of holiday season
no J sale expected, a majority of people who have booked this "LOL" (Light Business Concept) flight just do not care. It is just a business class flight as any other KBV, HKT or similar "LOL" segment. Tons of holidaymakers, families and similar non-FTer's who do not have a faintest idea what the carrier change will mean in this context.
Some seasoned FF's will surely change their schedule but AY can easily cover most of the losses by offering more or less pricey upgrades to ecomony class holidaymakers and sell even more economy seats.
EDIT: even though MIA flights are not supposed to be LOL flights anymore (since ~May ?) the clientele is more or less LOL during the peak of holiday season
What a fitting name
LOL