discoseal

It occurred to me that Finnair faces little competition in its operation. Let's face it: AY controls ~60% of the market into HEL, SAS/Blue1 isn't that huge in Finland, and LCC's like Norwegian don't seem to have that big of a niche in the country. If anything there is QR, but the two are in the same alliance.

ffay005

Transporting Finns to Europe and Europeans to Finland, AY does face competition, and a lot more so than 15 years ago. But you are right – there's a lot less competition out of HEL compared to continental Europe or even CPH or ARN.

OTOH, the main strategy, Asia-HEL-Europe, is a business where competition is fierce. AY's niche lies in creating city pairs where one or both cities are secondary destinations and require a change of planes somewhere en route. HEL is a very pleasant choice compared to the zoos they call CDG, FRA, LHR... So, if you are traveling from Krakow to Xian, AY might be your most convenient choice. Then again, if you're traveling from FRA to NRT, AY might sell the cheapest tickets on a route where there's a lot of competition.

Helsinki Flyer

From HEL to Europe, there isn´t that much competition. Where is Air France, Alitalia, Iberia, Czech Airlines, Austrian, Sleazyjet, Olympic/Aegean, Brussels Airline to name a few? At east Swiss is coming back with a few weekly flights. The market s too small.

ffay005

The market is too small and for someone based at HEL but with a variable flying pattern, there are practically no options if you prefer nonstop flights. KF tried and failed, and that's about it. Of course, if you only fly to FRA or LHR, you have options. But if you need to fly to a handful of destinations and want to avoid AY, you end up with spreading your flying on several different airlines, getting status and benefits nowhere.

What I wonder is why airlines fail when they try to operate from a regional Finnish airport to their own hub, like Tampere-CPH or Oulu-ARN. One would think that they would be competitive since the passengers will have to change planes anyway en route to Europe, so why not fly OUL-ARN-LHR instead of OUL-HEL-LHR?

Or is it so that intl demand is simply too low, and only the AY concept, where they put intl connections and HEL-destined pax on the same plane, works out economically?

remymartin

A few random thoughts:
- DY imo has a very good presence in HEL, flying shorthaul to several countries.
- QR have never set foot in HEL, so I'm not sure why OP mentioned it

ffay005

But not really competing in the business passenger segment where you need several daily frequencies.

Perhaps (this is just my guess) as a competitor on the Europe-Asia market, where one can choose to transit in DOH or HEL. I don't know how extensive QR's European network is, though.

remymartin

Well, do remember DY has a lot of frequencies to the Nordic countries. I have seen several "business" colleagues on DY flights.

QR flyes from e.g. ARN and OSL, with the obvious CDG, LHR, FRA and so forth.

discoseal

Huh. I distinctly remember QR announcing a HEL route. I guess it never came to fruition.

Given the joint-ventures, I think it's safe to assume that LH would then be AY's biggest rival since AY's business model focuses on EU-Asia traffic?

intuition

I'm not so sure. I think AY has a very interesting offer for many of Lufty's passengers, especially those who must go via FRA etc. Lower prices and easier connections.

I think QR/EK/EY and TK already are or soon will be the difficult competitors. All of them has already good presence in almost all of europe.

Andaman

Yes QR annouced HEL in 2012 but nothing happened, unfortunately.

Helsinki Flyer

Aegean coming to HEL next summer season. Might interest those needing a flight on them to keep status under the new rules.


http://www.finavia.fi/fi/tiedottamin...-kesalla-2015/

citroenc4

I used to (2009-2011) fly to European destinations from Singapore with QR when QR flights can be credited to UA. Since 2011, AY has been my choice because it is often the cheapest ticket to Europe with 100% AA miles (LH, QR, AF, EK may occasionally offer even lower prices but with no or 25% mileage only).

aster

Are AA and US both that generous with crediting AY flights, or just AA?

EDIT: Ok, I see that both credit miles in exactly the same way. I know AA and US are merging their FFPs but I didn't know that that earnings were so perfectly lined up (or maybe it's just for AY flights...).

Any reason you are crediting to AA instead of US?

citroenc4

Yeah, AA is very generous about AY flights. If I fly with AY and credit to AY, I might get only 25%. But if I credit to AA, then I get 100%. AA is also very generous about BA, IB, EY flights, I think. Almost all deep discounted tickets can get 100%.

I guess I just totally forgot about US, or was US a member of Oneworld before?

Even though I have lived in the US for two years, I am not sure if I have ever taken US Airways. I never thought that its program can be better than other programs such as AA or UA. Too late.

HJP

US joined Oneworld on 31 March 2014.