remymartin

Well RTW1... I think playing the "internet forum" card is quite the same what you're whining about.

I know vulle personally and have no reason to doubt he would spice things up or leave details out. Let's wait to see how things story pans out.

Meanwhile - vulle, have you considered contacting the GM of HI HEL? He should have info on what really went on.

GUWonder

Not sure how the mention of "profiling" in this thread is a wild accusation. Some IRROPs passengers on this flight got treated better than others. What was the basis for different treatment? Even you posted something that makes the outcome sound like it may not be coincidence. If it's not coincidence that caused this outcome, then what was it that caused this outcome? How about an explanation that doesn't blame the passenger?

Racism in profiling isn't a wild accusation -- it exists, even as not all profiling has racist elements.

With or without the racism, AY seems to have failed. The passenger should have been given her own room without having to share a room with strangers or front money to get a room that is AY's responsibility to cover.

RTW1

Then let me make myself a bit more clear..... I do kind of object to posts that say (without anything to back it up but emotion):

Even if it comes from a nice guy.

But hey, what do I know or care.... I'm just an English speaking white guy.

vulle

And well, as English speaking middle-aged white guy myself, I am not sure who I am supposed to be racist against here? And can one be racist against language-speakers anyway?

Thanks remymartin for a good idea, I've already left a message to HI's GM, he is supposed to call me tomorrow.

Thalassa

I guess I am the one who made "the wild accusation of profiling". Just to be clear, here's what I wrote:

I stand by this. Based on the OP's post, what happened sounds like profiling.

If I had to hazard a guess as to what caused the debacle, I'd say the most likely scenario is that the hotel staff figured that elderly Asian ladies were less likely to give them hell for putting two people in the same room. If this was the case, the intent was not racist but the action was.

Another scenario is that the middle-aged English speaking guys (a group I am a member of) simply went to the front of the line and grabbed the single accommodations before the others had a chance. If this was the case, it was a simple matter of some people being self-centered and inconsiderate.

But that's enough speculation. If a different picture emerges, I will be happy to admit I was mistaken.

Cheers,
T.

intuition

Gee, wasn't expecting that to occur here. I thought it was contained to the FT-forum-I-never-visit-anyore-due-to-all-discssions-turning-into-polarized-split-hairs-arguments.


The "We don't know what really happened" argument... Yeah, sure. No one can testify in court what was inside the head of that hotel staff.


What we do know:
Many of us have had irrops on AY. In fact, what has been told here is the classical AY irrop - a smaller technical issue can't get resolved in the short time for normal turn around and AY decides to delay overnight to get insync with their small fleet.
Despite having these irrops several times each month, AY does a poor job, IME. Everything describe by op, except the shared room, fits exactly what I've experienced.

We also know that AY do not book hotel rooms on an individual basis - they make a larger reservation and send a list of passengers to the hotels that are in on the deal.

We know that passengers are sent on the hotels-loop-line on their own in the middle of the night, and told to get themselves back to the airport extremely early. The passengers are supposed to find the hotels and sign themselves in all on their own.
When you find yourself in a hotel lobby in a dark and deserted industrial area in a foreign country at 23:00, I doubt even the seasoned traveller have very big balls. You will feel coerced to accept anything, because you have very little choice, and you really want those 5-6 hours of sleep they are offering you.

We know that trying to get cash back from Finnair is like getting blood from a stone. The savvy person probably will succeed in the end, but it will take months and a lot of energy.
Therefore the "if your not happy, book something on your own" is a very real threat, and I for one would have budged if I was told such a thing at 23:00 in a hotel lobby.

It is safe to say that we also know that some passengers were given single rooms, when others had to share and that this inequality wasn't random.

Was it a deliberate profiling? Well, we don't know. And we never will.
For the 10+ issues I have reported to finnair for different things that gone awry for me, I was never once told that really happened or the background to decisions made by operations. I usually get a reply written by a human (and not the cut&paste answers BAEC provides) but they never expose any flaws in their policies. HI GM, as suggested above, may provide a better insight on the process though.

I must say Vulle made a informative and balanced post, and he actually mostly asked for advice on proceeding. Saying he shouldn't post such emotional things, because that would turn FT into a internet board of wild accusations, is just silly.

vulle

Spoke with the GM of HI Airport. He wasn't ready to discuss what happened with me. I also tried to ask how passengers usually are dealt with, if they get a passenger list from Finnair etc, but he said that it is a business matter between HI and AY and he won't give me information on that either. Instead he asked me to be in contact with Finnair, everything is to be dealt with Finnair only. He promised though that this matter will be fully investigated, I am very much looking forward to the result.

GUWonder

File a report with IHG directly under the name of your relative with your relative's consent and see what comes back. At least that way the GM knows that corporate has a report on it too and decides to look into the matter. It might not make a difference, but there's little harm in doing so -- especially when the GM is unlikely to want to rock the boat too much with AY given AY provides more business to the hotel than the average guest.

Hotel check-in staff's incentive to tell IRROPs passengers to share rooms under such circumstances arises when AY doesn't book enough rooms for IRROPs passengers and such passengers are in the lobby wanting a room AY was supposed to have booked for them. Assuming elderly women are amongst some of the last to board the bus and/or the last to get off the bus and to the hotel check-in counter, it wouldn't surprise me if the hotel staff were largely in compliance with the hotel's own routines and AY didn't book enough rooms at the property.

What I have seen done in such circumstances is for the hotel to call the airline to agree to cover more rooms -- but that works only if the airline has someone answering the hotel (with that airline party willing and able to authorize such expenses for IRROPs customers) and if the contact info given to the hotel is available for such purposes.

remymartin

GUWonder,

All good suggestions, but do you know what IHG customer service dept is like?

GUWonder

I'm an IHG Platinum for years. There is a reason I didn't say deal with their ordinary customer service channels.

oliver2002

Gentle reminder to keep the (good or bad) comments on other members where they belong.

Regards Oliver2002
Senior Mod

oliver2002

Speaking of DEL I've been in a hotel paid by AI during an irreg in BOM and the hotel asked me to pick a room mate . When I challenged them why I can't get a room for myself, they said the airline paid them peanuts. I then offered to pay the peanuts to have a room to myself and they quoted me the rack rate After a very stern look from my end they 'suddenly' realised there was an odd number of passengers and I could have a room to myself.

In HEL I've been a guest courtesy of AY thanks to a shedule change by FC/BE. AY organised everything in advance and I was happy, but I noticed a batch of irregs arriving and they were given rooms based on the above mentioned pax list that AY sent. Since my indian hotel experience was in the recent past just before that I asked how they handle things. The lady at the counter laughed and said: 'we don't accept more pax than rooms from AY'. This was the Cumulus though. As mentioned above, I think they probably got more pax than rooms available and tried to make ends meet and rather than calling AY and sending the pax away to another hotel they just distributed them among the available rooms.

jmastron

I'd be interested to know whether the hotel was actually full, or if it was a question of how many rooms AY might pay for.

If the hotel was full, the clerk should have contacted the airline immediately to find out where their alternate was -- they could have *offered* people the option to be transported to another hotel or to pair up, solely the passengers' choice.

If the hotel was not full, this really was a business responsibility between the hotel and airline. Personally, I would have considered just paying for the night out of confusion, then at checkout turning around and disputing the charge on the CC -- the airline sent me to their contracted hotel, let the hotel work out their payment with the airline on their own time.

The airline really should have better representation available. This reminds me of the United flight to Asia that got diverted to Anchorage, where pax were sent to a hotel that insisted on credit cards that many didn't have. Yes, I know hotels normally need something for incidentals/potential damage, but these were disserviced passengers who had no plans or expectation to be staying in a hotel, and the airline should have sent a rep to the hotel(s) to cover for these cases.

remymartin

I agree. That's why hotels have "walking" policies in place. Shouldn't airlines know how many pax are aboard and whether they're on the same pnr or not? This cannot be difficult, can it?

Cupart

Quick question(s):

1) If the mother of the sister-in law (hmmm, sounds like one of these my sisters half brothers mother's first cousin) did not speak English and/or Finnish, why did she not call her daughter who would be able to communicate directly with the hotel staff?

2) If, it had been such a problem to share a room (I would never have accepted it, no matter if flying in Y, J or F, and never heard of it before either tbh) why not contact relatives who are based in HEL (looks like the OP is) and arranged for something else (not that it justifies the actions by the hotel)?

Some-one also threw in the racist card, a bit further up, which I'm not sure is properly called for, as none of us where there in person. The situation would not have been any different (better) had it been two people of a different ethnic group so why is the race thing always brought up?