forgiveomatic

You have answered a nagging question that I had. What you mentioned above are 2 types of 2-person compartments (deluxe and NOT deluxe). What about the 4-person bunk-bed type compartments, how many are there? Just in case we might have to resort to them.[/QUOTE]

This was my experience from booking 9 of us from Mannheim Germany to Copenhagen on DB on CNL train. We had a difference of what we could afford and so we slept accordingly. The deluxe room with bathroom slept 2 adults. The others shared compartment sleepers which were bunk bed style rooms. The train had LOTS of those (car after car) and you could put down up to 6 beds in ours. We only did 4 and 3 beds. There was a door that slid shut. The good and bad was we were split across the train as the deluxe cars were at the back and our compartments were in the middle. Train cars were added and taken off as we went and they were connected to other trains (the car in front of ours ended up in Poland). The compartments share a common bath that gets less pleasant as the trip goes but it works and we always had granny's deluxe bathroom if it ever got too bad. I hope that helps.

As for booking, since I am in Germany... i went to the train station and booked them myself. We didn't get any group fare for our tickets that I remember since kids went free and that brought our number down under group status.

KQ321

It seems group bookings for day-time trains can indeed be made up to 6 months in advance:

Availability can be checked here.

However, Citynightline services can normally be reserved up to 4 months in advance:
and I don't know whether being in a group would enable this horizon to be extended (given overnight schedules are often subject to change due to engineering works, etc).

The booking window for DB day-time trains for non-group travel is only 90 days. Note also the annual timetable change is due on 14th December 2014, so you probably won't be able to book any trains for after that date until the new timetable is released (probably in mid-October, and maybe later for some services) - even if you're booking for a group.

Yes, you should be able to book online at www.belgianrail.be/en/Default.aspx However, a 90 day booking window will presumably apply. I also don't know anything about SNCB's group tickets policy - as with DB, you may get a better price by phoning them and asking for a group fare.

No - this should be possible all as one ticket (as long as you avoid the Thalys, as exilencfc has said). Looking at bahn.de, they seem to offer fares on several connections each day, with an ICE from Berlin to Cologne, another ICE Cologne to Brussels, and an IC to Ghent.

The timetable seems to mean you have a 30 minute connection anyway - which should be plenty of time (unless the ICE is very delayed, or your group is particularly slow moving). However, I don't think it really matters (ie: you don't need to allow any additional time for the connection), because:
a) There are several trains an hour from Brussels to Ghent;
b) If Berlin-Brussels-Ghent is all on one ticket, then if the ICE is delayed, you would automatically be allowed to use the next train to Ghent;
c) As far as I know, IC tickets within Belgium are not tied to a specific train (unlike Thalys tickets, or discounted SparPreis IC/ICE tickets in Germany), and so even if you had a separate ticket for Brussels-Ghent, you could use it on any suitable train that day.

Most Citynightline trains have at least one of each of the following 3 basic types of carriage:

• Sleepers (either 'Comfortline' single-deckers, OR double-deckers)
• Couchettes
• Seats (either reclining seats in an open-saloon, OR non-reclining seats in 6-seat compartments)

I assume you're not interested in the seats, so I'll focus on the other two options:

• Comfortline sleepers: have 9 'regular' compartments (with washbasin), and 3 'deluxe' compartments (with ensuite shower and toilet). Both types of compartment can be configured with 1, 2 or 3 berths, and can be combined with the adjacent compartment by opening the connecting door. See carriage plan.
• Double-decker sleepers: have 4 'deluxe' compartments (with ensuite shower and toilet; and much more spacious than the Comfortline deluxe compartments) on the upper deck; and 9 'regular' compartments, and 2 'regular 4-berth' compartments on the lower deck. However, as far as I know, the deluxe and regular compartments can only be configured as 1 or 2 berth, not 3; and none of the compartments inter-connect. See carriage plan. (The website also indicates that some double-deckers are economy only)
• Couchette cars: have 10 compartments (less if they have a wheelchair-accessible compartment or space for bikes). Each compartment can be configured with 6 or 4 berths. There are no washbasins in the compartment, but shared facilities at the end of each carriage. See carriage plan.

It seems the Munich-Berlin 'Capella' is currently using the double-decker sleeping cars. The precise number of carriages of each type (sleeper / couchette / seats) can depend on the route and expected demand. However, vagonweb.cz currently shows the Capella consisting of:
- 2 double-decker sleeper carriages (1 with deluxe and economy compartments; 1 economy compartments only)
- 3 couchette carriages
- 1 seats carriage

However, that doesn't guarantee availability, of course. If you booked 3 months out for a mid-week departure in low-season, you'd almost certainly find space in any class of accommodation you wanted. However, at peak times and weekends, some accommodation may sell out quite rapidly.

Note that, as forgiveomatic has indicated, several Citynightline sections often run together, for parts of their journey. For example, when leaving Munich, the Capella is attached to the Munich-Hamburg 'Pyxis' service.

By the way, it seems you're planning to base yourself in 3 main hubs (Munich, Berlin and Brussels) and head out from those locations on day-trips. However, some of the other locations are quite far out from the hubs, but also well on the way to the next one. So, you could look at something like: Salzburg-Munich-Nuremberg-Leipzig-Dresden-Berlin-Brussels-Ghent, staying a night or two in each location. This should reduce the amount of overall travel time - although would mean you're changing accommodation much more frequently.

allset2travel

Yes, I did a test booking. It worked out just fine without THA.

If we book on 1 ticket, 30 min should be enough.

Thanks for sharing.

allset2travel

Thank you for sharing your group travel experience.
Fortunately our CNL itinerary from Munich to Berlin is a non-stop and no transfer needed. I don't think our group can handle being split up in cars too far from each other.

allset2travel

KQ321,
Thank you very much for providing so much details in answering my questions. Much obliged!

I will call DB soon.

Regarding Berlin to Gent: I did a test booking on DB. It is confirmed that we (group of 9) can indeed purchase a single ticket on DB. Transfer time in Koln is 34 min & in Bruxelles-Midi is 30 minutes. These transfer times seem OK for us. Three trains and no Thalys: ICE556, ICE10 and IC543. I am not sure I should worry about the train fare (since it is a test booking for June) which shows €1,397.25.

Regarding Munich to Berlin: thanks a bunch for the informative links (some of which I have not come across). If Capella is a double decker, luggage needs to be carried to upper deck? Or is there space below where luggage can be secured?



My bold. Did you mean "2 double-decker sleepers carriages"?


My bold.
Excellent suggestion! What you said is precisely how I and Mrs allset would travel, when we travel by the 2 of us. But with the other members in the group, they all prefer not to change hotel too frequently. I see their point.

Being under consideration is to eliminate couple of day trips. May cut out Leipzig and perhaps staying in Gent instead of Brussels (significant savings in hotel). Then do day trips to Bruges and Brussels from Gent. I know a great place (Marriott) in Gent to stay and I love the town enough to warrant a re-visit.

Thank you for taking the time. Very helpful!

KQ321

Out of interest, which bahn.de booking page are you using (the regular journey planner or the group booking page)? I understand your group is 9 adults, but the regular journey planner normally accepts a maximum of 5 travellers. The group booking page accepts more, of course, but will not actually finalise a booking - it seems it simply creates a query which can be submitted to the DB customer service desk.

Anyhow, a fully-flexible single ticket for one person from Berlin to Ghent (via Cologne and Brussels) is €160.40 - which is actually €1,443.60 for 9 people.

However, unless you absolutely need to have full flexibility, or are booking at the very last minute, there should be no need to pay so much. Even a single passenger, if they're willing to commit to specific trains on a specific day, can get a Europa-Spezial for a price starting from €39 one way. For a group of 9, this could be booked in two rounds (one for a group of 5, one for a group of 4) - and in theory could bring the price down to as little as €351 (although you may struggle to find availability at that price).

However, as you're aware, for a group of 9 you're probably better off looking at DB's Gruppe&Spar offers. This can give a saving of up to 70% (presumably off the full-fare price), but also commits you to a specific train on a specific day (although with different fare conditions to those for the Europa-Spezial). Looking at a random date in May, the group booking page is offering a 'Gruppe&Spar 60' offer (ie: 60% discount; presumably the 70% discount is sold-out) for €67.95 per person, plus €2 compulsory seat reservation per person, so a total of €629.55. (Even excluding the seat reservation, I make that a discount of only 57.5%, but never mind...) Anyhow, if you make sure you book 6 months out, you should be able to get that sort of price.

It's been a while since I actually travelled in one of the double-deckers (as I'm normally on Comfortline routes), so perhaps someone else can advise on the details. However, on the double-deckers the carriage corridor is actually at mid-level height. So, if I recall correctly, there are a couple of steps to get from the platform into the train, and then along the corridor it's either a few steps down into the lower economy compartments, or a few steps up to the upper deluxe compartments. I don't think there is any storage space outside of the compartments, and especially if you're in a relatively spacious deluxe compartment, I think you'd be expected to take your luggage inside with you.

I recently saw someone else on this forum (I think in a different thread) advising that for European train travel you should travel as light as possible - and I would strongly agree. Admittedly on occasions I have found myself lugging huge amounts of luggage across Europe by train - but travelling with, say, one medium-sized roller-case and one small/medium backpack is far more pleasant. (Foreign tourists trying to squeeze into a 6-berth couchette compartment with one (if not more) large roller-cases each is a classic problem, but even economy sleeper compartments don't have a huge amount of space...)

Yes. My mistake - original post now corrected.
Do look at the vagonweb.cz page for a graphical presentation of the train - plus some pictures of the carriages (although mainly only of the economy 4-berth compartment).


Note that if you're visiting Dresden (or Leipzig) as a day-trip from Berlin, you will presumably want the direct EC train for Dresden (or direct IC/ICE for Leipzig) rather than the local trains, which are much slower and require changes. And so you will also want to book these in advance, in order to get a discounted price. Eating in the restaurant car (on the EC/IC/ICE trains - the local trains don't have one, of course) enables you to maximise your time in Dresden/Leipzig doing other things (although eating from the food-stalls in the Christmas markets is also an essential part of the experience...)

For day-trips from Munich to Salzburg or Nuremberg booking in advance is less of an issue, because there are direct local trains which are only ~30 mins slower than the ICE/RJ/IC/EC/ options - and if you depart after 9am you can use a Bayern-ticket for either location (€35 for 4 passengers, €39 for 5, so €74 for 9 passengers). This covers both the outward and return journey (as long as it's on the same day) and even covers public transport (trams, metro, etc) within Nuremberg (and Munich).

I note that you are starting your trip in late November. Do check that the relevant Christmas markets will be open by that point. It seems that most of the major ones open from the beginning of Advent (ie: the weekend of 30th November this year), but some smaller ones may start later than that.

exilencfc

That sounds about right as a description of a double-deck car, i've never travelled in one but have walked through them.

Luggage is another good point, especially bear in mind that there's always a considerable step up from the platform into the carriage so you need to be able to pull your bags up that. Within the cabins, luggage space is adequate but not generous, you really want to have your bag organised so the stuff you want on the train is handy. The corridors aren't massively wide either - though perfectly adequate for most bags.

allset2travel

Sorry, I read your post but had forgotten to acknowledge until I re-read the entire thread.

Good to know that splitting tickets would not present a problem.


Yes, am aware of this. Thanks.



Nice tip about Bayern-Ticket. I will check it out.
Many thanks for kind suggestions and useful web links. For short journeys, second class maybe ok.

allset2travel

Hi KQ321,
Thanks again for sharing your insight.

I was on the regualr jouney planner (Deutschland in English). I was not aware of the group booking page at that time. That’s why I was concerned about booking for a group of 5 and then a group of 4. Now I don’t have to worry about that. Unless booking with regular journey planner results in lower fare for the entire group.

I sent in the query form to the UK office (online) today, and hope to hear from them regarding group booking.


No, we don’t need flexibility. We can commit to fixed date of travel to take advantage of discount. Wow, this price (Europa-Spezial) looks good. I will play with it online.
About the Gruppe&Spar offer. Is this offered only by telephone (with query form pre-sent)? Not too sure if it is bookable online as well?

About luggage: each person will travel with one piece 22” x 9” x 14” on roller plus one backpack. Should have no problem in terms of mobility, up/down the double decker. My concern was where can we put the luggage. After looking at the drawing of the compartments (thanks for those links, very helpful), it seems to have room for luggage storage.




Your comment in quote had alerted me to check the return trip time table (Berlin-Dresden). Outbound has non-stop journey time of 2 hours; but the return is more problematic (the quickest one is 2:54). That does not leave much time for touring Dresden and its Christmas market. So I need to rethink this one. Ditto for Leipzig (mostly like will drop it). Besides, we might get Christmas-market burn-out by then.



For day-trips from Munich to Salzburg or Nuremberg booking in advance is less of an issue, because there are direct local trains which are only ~30 mins slower than the ICE/RJ/IC/EC/ options - and if you depart after 9am you can use a Bayern-ticket for either location (€35 for 4 passengers, €39 for 5, so €74 for 9 passengers). This covers both the outward and return journey (as long as it's on the same day) and even covers public transport (trams, metro, etc) within Nuremberg (and Munich).[/QUOTE]

Yes, this further confirms what up-post indicated as well. Thank you. Definitely look into it.


Good point. I had checked carefully before booking the air tickets. We are OK on that. For example, Salzburg opens on November 20, 2014 & Munich November 25. All dates are shown on official city web sites. I am real careful about what WAS in fact FACTUAL info found on the web.

Once again, I appreciate all that you have shared on this board! Thanks.

KQ321

I don't think I've ever actually made a Gruppe&Spar booking by this system (only by phone). However, it seems you can't actually complete a booking via the website - only submit a query, which is presumably then finalised either by email or phone.

Strange... There should be a direct Dresden-Berlin service every two hours during the day, leaving at xx:04, and taking ~2h12mins. The last service departs at 20:53. (There are also other options during the day, with one connection via Leipzig, taking 2h54mins, which seems to be what you're looking at).

So, it should be possible to do Dresden as reasonable day-trip from Berlin, and IMHO it's worth the visit - although I can also understand your point about Christmas-market fatigue...

Sorry, I hadn't noticed that linglingfool had already posted this tip. Incidentally, I would consider taking a First-class Bayern-ticket for these trips. Although the difference in seating, etc isn't that great, there can be a huge difference in terms of crowding. At peak times (which probably includes weekends when Christmas markets are open...) second-class on these trains can get very full - while in first, you should normally find a seat alright (although the Meridian trains Munich-Salzburg only have a very small First-class section). I normally travel second-class, but if I need to be sure of having space on a long trip (eg: to get work done), then I'll take a First-class Bayern-ticket.


OK, good to know. I must have been looking at Nuremberg, which opens 28th November (weekend of 1st Advent).

linglingfool

No worries, I'm learning a lot from following this thread as well.

allset2travel

Sent in this form twice, 2 days apart. Each time, I got this back:
Service Unavailable - Zero size object

The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later.
Reference #15.66959d50.1399267903.406c6275

Does anyone have a DB customer service telephone number? Thanks.

linglingfool

+49 1806 99 66 33, then press 9 for the English menu after the "herzlich willkommen bei der Servicenummer der Bahn" prompt.

KQ321

Thanks for the tip to press 9 to get an English menu (I don't think I was aware of this before...)

Alternatively, for DB's booking centre in the UK (ie: English speaking):

Note that outside of the UK office's opening hours, this number will be re-directed to the regular DB customer service number in Germany.

I also have a record of an email address for DB UK of [email protected] , although I don't know if this still works.

linglingfool

Are the agents on this number UK-based, or does it forward to the English-speaking DB staff in Germany? If the former, may give this number to friends and family in the future, as there are still occasionally language issues on the German line.