Is it wise to appeal a denied Schengen visa or just reapply with another state?
Oct 23, 2006, 10:12 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1
Is it wise to appeal a denied Schengen visa or just reapply with another state?
Hi. I need your advice. I applied for the first time, for a Schengen visa, with the Italian Embassy here in Manila, and just got denied. I need to know if it's wise to appeal my case and wait but the thing is, I really want to leave already and I can do that by re-applying ASAP.
Facts:
I had planned to leave for Rome, Italy this weekend and for that, I filed my visa requirements a month ago, last September 21 to be exact. My case was "drop box" only (no interview). I planned it in time to go for my birthday next month. I have always wanted to visit the Vatican and thought it would be a perfect place to enjoy my special day.
Okay, so I was informed visa processing takes long but when it reached 3 weeks, I started checking with their customer service representatives already on the status of my application and they said "it's still being processed". By the 4th week, I started sending fax messages and an email requesting them to release my visa already because I needed to prepare. And they did -- on October 20. The sad part is, despite the long wait, yup, it wasn't to my favor.
Action Plan:
So the thing is, I'm still raring to go but I'm not sure what to do. According to the letter the Embassy sent me, my visa application was denied on September 25 (yes, 4 days after the documents were picked up from me) and I could file for an appeal within 60 days of receipt of the notice (October 20). I can do that because I have lawyer friends. But I really want to leave and the travel agent said I could apply again, but suggested with another embassy (now I can really say it's tough going through the Italian Embassy when I have every requirement covered -- it's true).
I really want to go but I was thinking also of appealing my case. I haven't been denied before and I think it would look bad in my next applications (would it?).
So I need to decide this week so I can still leave (hopefully) by my birthday. Appeal or not to appeal? Hehehe. Or just apply again? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Grazie!
Thanks a lot!!!
Facts:
I had planned to leave for Rome, Italy this weekend and for that, I filed my visa requirements a month ago, last September 21 to be exact. My case was "drop box" only (no interview). I planned it in time to go for my birthday next month. I have always wanted to visit the Vatican and thought it would be a perfect place to enjoy my special day.
Okay, so I was informed visa processing takes long but when it reached 3 weeks, I started checking with their customer service representatives already on the status of my application and they said "it's still being processed". By the 4th week, I started sending fax messages and an email requesting them to release my visa already because I needed to prepare. And they did -- on October 20. The sad part is, despite the long wait, yup, it wasn't to my favor.
Action Plan:
So the thing is, I'm still raring to go but I'm not sure what to do. According to the letter the Embassy sent me, my visa application was denied on September 25 (yes, 4 days after the documents were picked up from me) and I could file for an appeal within 60 days of receipt of the notice (October 20). I can do that because I have lawyer friends. But I really want to leave and the travel agent said I could apply again, but suggested with another embassy (now I can really say it's tough going through the Italian Embassy when I have every requirement covered -- it's true).
I really want to go but I was thinking also of appealing my case. I haven't been denied before and I think it would look bad in my next applications (would it?).
So I need to decide this week so I can still leave (hopefully) by my birthday. Appeal or not to appeal? Hehehe. Or just apply again? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Grazie!
Thanks a lot!!!
Last edited by Water; Oct 24, 2006 at 5:56 am
Oct 24, 2006, 10:06 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Not sure if I understood it correctly from some South African friends of mine, but if you got a Shengen visa from another country you would have to enter that country first before you enter any other one. BUT I COULD BE WRONG!!
Oct 24, 2006, 11:04 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2003
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The Schengen countries share the so-called Schengen information system so theoretically every Embassy of every Schengen country can see if / when you have applied for a visa and if / when it was approved / denied. However, I don't know how fool proof that system is.
According to the rules you have to apply at the Embassy of the country where you will spend most time. So if you are planning to spend most of your Schengen time in Italy you have no other choice than the Italian Embassy.
A friend of mine who wanted to spend 5 days in the Netherlands and 7 days in France was told at the Dutch embassy in Bangkok that he had to go to the French Embassy to apply for the Schengen visa.
According to the rules you have to apply at the Embassy of the country where you will spend most time. So if you are planning to spend most of your Schengen time in Italy you have no other choice than the Italian Embassy.
A friend of mine who wanted to spend 5 days in the Netherlands and 7 days in France was told at the Dutch embassy in Bangkok that he had to go to the French Embassy to apply for the Schengen visa.
Oct 25, 2006, 9:20 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I would appeal. The other countries will be able to see that Italy denied you but may not be able to see WHY. This could lead to other countries refusing you. If you are not going to spend most of the time in the other country then they may still refuse you because you are visiting Italy.
It is much better to get the refusal removed from your record, and for that you need to appeal.
Did the Italians give you a reason for refusing the visa?
It is much better to get the refusal removed from your record, and for that you need to appeal.
Did the Italians give you a reason for refusing the visa?
Oct 29, 2006, 2:29 am
#5
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The following communication infrastructure is shared in large measure for:
http://www.public-cio.com/newsStory....6.10.04-101436
.... and going down the Swiss route doesn't work as well as in the past as they can and do patch into Schengen databases, although I haven't cared to note the extent or frequency of that as of late.
SIS II the new second generation Schengen Information System which is a governmental database system that will be used by all European countries for the purpose of maintaining and distributing information related to border security and law enforcement.
EURODAC, which is the database system which includes fingerprints of asylum applicants.
VIS the Visa Information System which will prevent visa shopping and improve the possibility to return illegal immigrants.
TACHONET the communication infrastructure for exchanging information on Tachograph Cards for trucks.
CECIS the Civil Protection and Environmental Emergencies European Network (CECIS).
Europol which is the European Union law enforcement organization that handles criminal intelligence.
The National Financial Intelligence Units for the exchange of disclosures on suspicious money transactions to the competent authorities.
The FADO network which is the Councils European Image Archiving System that will facilitate the exchange of information between member states on genuine and false documents in the area of immigration and police cooperation.
EURODAC, which is the database system which includes fingerprints of asylum applicants.
VIS the Visa Information System which will prevent visa shopping and improve the possibility to return illegal immigrants.
TACHONET the communication infrastructure for exchanging information on Tachograph Cards for trucks.
CECIS the Civil Protection and Environmental Emergencies European Network (CECIS).
Europol which is the European Union law enforcement organization that handles criminal intelligence.
The National Financial Intelligence Units for the exchange of disclosures on suspicious money transactions to the competent authorities.
The FADO network which is the Councils European Image Archiving System that will facilitate the exchange of information between member states on genuine and false documents in the area of immigration and police cooperation.
.... and going down the Swiss route doesn't work as well as in the past as they can and do patch into Schengen databases, although I haven't cared to note the extent or frequency of that as of late.
Oct 1, 2011, 8:47 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 17
I realize this thread is a bit old, so I am just replying for future references. Perhaps my knowledge can help anyone. If a visa has been denied, the applicant needs to go through the appeal process instead of reapplying. There is even some rule (do not take me for granted, I am conveying what I have heard or read) which says that you can't reapply before the previous application is fully finished which is only after the visa appeal period expires. Here is a page with a sample Schengen visa appeal letter and more details about the whole thing: visa appeal letter and Schengen visa appeal. I have a friend who went through the appeal process withing 30 days (Germany) and got the visa, but I have also read in discussion forums about stories of people who had bad luck even with lawyers. I think it also depends a lot on the embassy, some embassies are better, in other words, before applying for he visa, it pays off to do research on which embassy is good not only in granting visa but also later with the visa appeal process. Good luck to everyone. It would be great if there were no visa at all.
Dec 3, 2011, 7:11 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
I applied for a German Visa and was denied for insufficient funds, I was damn confused, I visited this web site through google and read xjessie007's article which recommended appeal with a sample letter. I used the sample letter to appeal and added an updated bank statement and a credit card statement. 3 days time I received a mail that the refusal decision has been overturned and so I should bring my passport to the embassy. My visa is now granted so thanks xjessie007 for your guidance. The appeal really works.
Dec 9, 2011, 5:37 am
#9
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I applied for a German Visa and was denied for insufficient funds, I was damn confused, I visited this web site through google and read xjessie007's article which recommended appeal with a sample letter. I used the sample letter to appeal and added an updated bank statement and a credit card statement. 3 days time I received a mail that the refusal decision has been overturned and so I should bring my passport to the embassy. My visa is now granted so thanks xjessie007 for your guidance. The appeal really works.
Jan 8, 2012, 3:48 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
Are prepaid accommodations necessary?
I'm applying for a Shengen Visa through Germany too. According to the embassy's site, I need to present documentation showing that I've paid for (and not simply reserved) my accommodations. I've booked all my hotels through booking.com, but haven't paid for them yet for two reasons: booking.com doesn't really let you pay through them, and more importantly, I'm a little hesitant to spend hundreds of dollars in rooms for a trip I may not be granted a visa for.
I've applied for (and been granted) visas in the past by other countries without having to pay beforehand. Would anybody know if paying ahead for my rooms is really necessary? Thanks a lot
I've applied for (and been granted) visas in the past by other countries without having to pay beforehand. Would anybody know if paying ahead for my rooms is really necessary? Thanks a lot
Jan 12, 2012, 7:27 pm
#11
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I'm applying for a Shengen Visa through Germany too. According to the embassy's site, I need to present documentation showing that I've paid for (and not simply reserved) my accommodations. I've booked all my hotels through booking.com, but haven't paid for them yet for two reasons: booking.com doesn't really let you pay through them, and more importantly, I'm a little hesitant to spend hundreds of dollars in rooms for a trip I may not be granted a visa for.
I've applied for (and been granted) visas in the past by other countries without having to pay beforehand. Would anybody know if paying ahead for my rooms is really necessary? Thanks a lot
I've applied for (and been granted) visas in the past by other countries without having to pay beforehand. Would anybody know if paying ahead for my rooms is really necessary? Thanks a lot
Jan 15, 2012, 8:42 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,656
Welcome to nic977. If your hotel reservations are not prepaid, include the genuine hotel reservations that you intend to travel on. If the visa officer has a reason to question these, they will, but in 90% of cases there will be no issue whatsoever.
Jan 16, 2012, 12:40 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2009
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If we're going down this route, why not pay some smugglers to whisk you across the border from Turkey to Greece in the back of a truck?
Welcome to nic977. If your hotel reservations are not prepaid, include the genuine hotel reservations that you intend to travel on. If the visa officer has a reason to question these, they will, but in 90% of cases there will be no issue whatsoever.
Welcome to nic977. If your hotel reservations are not prepaid, include the genuine hotel reservations that you intend to travel on. If the visa officer has a reason to question these, they will, but in 90% of cases there will be no issue whatsoever.
I will echo this. While the Embassy/Consulate website's quote what are the stated rules, Consular officers are quite aware of the practicalities of travel and often will not force the issue of prepaid vs. reserved hotel stay's and also regarding adequate insurance coverage etc. While this is not the norm, officers do have some flexibility and can be reasonable, but of course it depends on who you get dealing with your application. German, French and Netherland are pretty efficient that way I have found.
Sep 4, 2012, 6:19 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
I realize this thread is a bit old, so I am just replying for future references. Perhaps my knowledge can help anyone. If a visa has been denied, the applicant needs to go through the appeal process instead of reapplying. There is even some rule (do not take me for granted, I am conveying what I have heard or read) which says that you can't reapply before the previous application is fully finished which is only after the visa appeal period expires. Here is a page with a sample Schengen visa appeal letter and more details about the whole thing: visa appeal letter and Schengen visa appeal. I have a friend who went through the appeal process withing 30 days (Germany) and got the visa, but I have also read in discussion forums about stories of people who had bad luck even with lawyers. I think it also depends a lot on the embassy, some embassies are better, in other words, before applying for he visa, it pays off to do research on which embassy is good not only in granting visa but also later with the visa appeal process. Good luck to everyone. It would be great if there were no visa at all.
Hi xjessie007,
Please shed me some light... I was denied to have a visa in German embassy just today through letter. Reason was, "your intention to leave the territory of the Shengen states before the expiry of the visa could not be ascertained". I wonder why because i submitted my COE indicating my 3mos approved leave with ITR. What more proofs they want to have? I cant show them my bank account since i don't have credit cards nor accounts in any bank and i already submitted a formal obligation from my bf and an invitation letter. I believe i submitted all the necessary requirements too! Could it be because i did not specify the date of my leave(just 3mos)? Or could it be because my health insurance is not parallel with my itinerary?(Health insurance expired before my departure) But the my bf said there's could be no problem with that since it can be moved. Was thinking, i submitted my company's calling card for them to ask my employer but it seems they did not even bother checking me. at least they could have asked if they knew considerations.... I don't have plans to overstay either that is why i am so sad... If i make an appeal, should i submit all documents again or should i just bring a letter and the supporting papers with it? Pls, pls, pls, your advise will truly be appreciated!
Have a nice day!
Sep 5, 2012, 4:54 pm
#15
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Hi xjessie007,
Please shed me some light... I was denied to have a visa in German embassy just today through letter. Reason was, "your intention to leave the territory of the Shengen states before the expiry of the visa could not be ascertained". I wonder why because i submitted my COE indicating my 3mos approved leave with ITR. What more proofs they want to have? I cant show them my bank account since i don't have credit cards nor accounts in any bank and i already submitted a formal obligation from my bf and an invitation letter. I believe i submitted all the necessary requirements too! Could it be because i did not specify the date of my leave(just 3mos)? Or could it be because my health insurance is not parallel with my itinerary?(Health insurance expired before my departure) But the my bf said there's could be no problem with that since it can be moved. Was thinking, i submitted my company's calling card for them to ask my employer but it seems they did not even bother checking me. at least they could have asked if they knew considerations.... I don't have plans to overstay either that is why i am so sad... If i make an appeal, should i submit all documents again or should i just bring a letter and the supporting papers with it? Pls, pls, pls, your advise will truly be appreciated!
Have a nice day!
Please shed me some light... I was denied to have a visa in German embassy just today through letter. Reason was, "your intention to leave the territory of the Shengen states before the expiry of the visa could not be ascertained". I wonder why because i submitted my COE indicating my 3mos approved leave with ITR. What more proofs they want to have? I cant show them my bank account since i don't have credit cards nor accounts in any bank and i already submitted a formal obligation from my bf and an invitation letter. I believe i submitted all the necessary requirements too! Could it be because i did not specify the date of my leave(just 3mos)? Or could it be because my health insurance is not parallel with my itinerary?(Health insurance expired before my departure) But the my bf said there's could be no problem with that since it can be moved. Was thinking, i submitted my company's calling card for them to ask my employer but it seems they did not even bother checking me. at least they could have asked if they knew considerations.... I don't have plans to overstay either that is why i am so sad... If i make an appeal, should i submit all documents again or should i just bring a letter and the supporting papers with it? Pls, pls, pls, your advise will truly be appreciated!
Have a nice day!
-RM