Parrotfish

My post above has to do with the Frankfurt-Paris route. This post has to do with EuroDisney/Rome split that you are proposing. To echo earlier posts this is utterly beyond my realm of comprehension. You might as well take advantage of EasyJet. It is fine to make this whole loop through W. Europe in a car. Again, if you divide the drives into short, 2-3 hour segments, you will get to see an enormous amount. After a reasonable amount of time in Paris, go through Burgundy, then Provence, through the French and Italian Riverias, Tuscany, Rome, back up through Switzerland and back to FRA. It will be an amazing road trip.
Please check your rental contract for its rules on bringing the car into Italy, and also insurance coverage.

horseymen

First of all, a very helpful thank you for all the comments so far. I appreciate them all, and have read all of them and I'm always amazed and grateful that people will share their experiences to help out.

Just to answer a few common themes/questions:

A) I would say we are experienced travelers, just not experienced international travelers. We have traveled 6 weeks with 2.5 year olds and with 1.5 year olds the last two years - it's just been in the US. I am very comfortable traveling, but I realize Europe will be a huge change. I'd like to start integrating international travel into our summer vacation now that I have accumulated quite the point stockpile - so no better way to do it but to do it. Our little girls are looking forward to the flying beds as we call them as we have talked about it with them.

B) I appreciate the well though-out advice to wait a day before attempting the trip. If we do attempt the trip, I will just note that I consider myself a very responsible driver. I have probably logged nearly a million miles. During college, I did 100,000 miles a year as a route driver mystery shopping Taco Bells - and I did this for 3-4 years, driving 15-18 hours a day. I'm very good at knowing when I shouldn't drive anymore, and now that I have kids, any youthful narcissism that I can do something has quickly been tempered for what's best for the kids. If I get off the plane feeling dead to the world, we will be at the HGI on property in a heartbeat. We have planned contingency plans already.

My most impressive roadtrip was driving from Dallas to the Arctic Circle and back. I am hoping my experience will be helpful for a first time in Europe. It may not help at all, but I am very comfortable driving long distances through unknown territory - although I'm sure nothing will prepare you for European driving. I did take 5 years of French in HS, so I might be able to pass for limited conversations and will probably understand some of the signage.

C) As far as the itinerary of the trip/logic of the trip - the Marriott near Disneyland Paris has free internet, two bedroom apartment style setup (which was important to us to give the girls their own bedroom and for us to have our own bedroom, and have a kitchen and things to that end to cook if necessary) and free parking, and a pretty reasonable price around $150-$200 USD (when we booked it) per night - so that's why we went with it. We looked at AirBNB and had a couple of leads, but ultimately, we wanted to go with something we were familiar with, something that had room, something kinda away from the city but not too far away to where traveling into Paris would be a nightmare. The free parking/reliable internet were important as I will be working 4-6 hours a day on the trip - but mostly when our girls sleep since they still sleep 13 hours a day.

We have 20 days at the Marriott, 15 days at the Sheraton Roma - and a couple of days to drive from Paris to Rome and then Rome back to Frankfurt.

The Rome portion is the Sheraton Roma on points - and we went with that because they shuttle you into the Rome City Center, we have adjoining rooms there, so won't have quite the room, but didn't see anything that approximated the 2 bedroom timeshare set-up, and again, we wanted the familiarity. And, on points, it was free for two rooms.

We are keeping the trip super flexible for the kids - if they don't acclimate well, or if we don't - we CAN go to Disney and keep it low-key, but we hope to not have to go to Disney. We have season passes for WDW in Florida, so I don't feel "pressured" to go to Disney - given we'll have to pay for WD-Paris to see the same things we can see at WD-Orlando and WD-Anaheim. Again, I view this as a testing the water trip. Not gonna try to shove everything in. If we get to see the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Arc de Triumphe, and other French attractions, great! If all we do is effectively "play house" for 6 weeks with french and italian food/customs - great as well. We'll try again next year or in 2 years when they're a bit older.

Given as much as we've traveled, it's our guess they'll handle it well, but you never know! I may not handle it well.

Same theory in Rome. If we get to see Vatican City, the Colisseum, and everything in between - great! If not, I won't be heart broken.

I know this probably doesn't mesh with most people's view of vacation, but I literally want to get to a life where we travel 3-4 months a year - so vacation should not be a stressful time of getting things in - it should be open, flexible, and we'll do what we can do and what we're comfortable with - if not - we will just do what we can.

D) The car situation is one I have thoroughly investigated, and I feel more comfortable with a car. For 6 weeks, we have a passat station wagon for $1125 all-in. I don't think that's too expensive or wasted money. If we're in Paris and want to take a roadtrip for the day, we can do so. If we just want to drive around Paris and never park and just sight see, we can. If we get a wild hair and want to drive to London just to experience the Chunnel, we can. (We aren't planning on that - but again - trying to be flexible)

To do public transportation from Frankfurt to the Marriott seems like a hassle, to do it again to Rome seems like a hassle, and then to do it again back to Frankfurt seems like a hassle. A car might be a hassle as well, but I think it's money well spent for the security - even if we metro into Paris everyday. We might need the car to go to the local stores and things for food.

As far as the McDonald's comment - I was just giving an example of something that is comfortable for the kids on the FIRST day of the trip. Obviously we are not planning on making a habit of that - but it might be comforting the first day to give them something they know (and it'd be a treat because we rarely go to McDonald's! But they know what it is..)

Someone mentioned rest stops actually have good food. Are rest-stops government run operations - kinda like say on the Kansas Turnpike where you'll have a Hardees or a Carl's Junior and gas in the middle of the intersection - or are they something completely different?

But in summary, I will strongly consider a first day rest - but still - any advice on the actual drive itself - bypasses, short-cuts, a better rest area than another, etc.. For instance, if anyone was driving from Dallas to Houston, I'd recommend the Bucee's rest stop as a must-stop place to go. Are there any of these things on the Frankfurt to Paris route?

RTW1

You seemed to have thought about most things....

The thing I feel is a shame is staying at just 2 locations for that long a time. I would be bored out of my skull staying at the Marriot for about 3 weeks when the whole of France would be available on my way to Italy. Same thing there, go to the beaches for a few days, drive through Tuscany, etc.

If you need to work better stay at home or at a beach location instead of wasting your money/points on this trip where you will be stuck in a less than desirable location. In two impersonal US branded hotel chains to boot, you will miss out on a lot of local impressions.

I get it that moving every day is far from perfect with a family. But something like 3-4 different venues with some variety and some days to travel would seem a lot better to me. France and Italy have so much more to offer than Paris and Rome.

When are you planning to go?

iff

I have not been to this Marriott, but it looks like public transportation to/from Paris entails a bus + an RER train = approximately 1-1/2 hours one way. If you want to visit Paris, an apartment in the city might be a better setup; it would save you a lot of time in transport and would give you the flexibility to return home for nap time, etc.

I'd hate to see you end up "playing house" in an area where you will not experience the country or culture and your impression of your stay will end up being not much different than if you'd stayed in a residential hotel in the US.

cbn42

It's not all-in when you consider that gas in much of Europe right now is the equivalent of over 9 US$/gallon, and you will spend a significant amount in tolls and parking as well.

Also note that there isn't parking at every location in Europe. You may still have to take public transit from the parking lot to wherever you are trying to go, if you aren't willing to walk a significant distance.

It seems you have done some research, but far too many Americans arrive in Europe thinking that because they have traveled domestically, they know how to handle it, and rent cars without thinking it through. The car rental companies are happy to oblige, and after a few days they dump the car and get a transit pass anyway.

About the route itself, there isn't much that is essential to see. You could stop at Reims and see the cathedral or just walk around the town.

LupineChemist

As someone that lives in a city in Europe, I will say that even though we pay for a car and the garage space to park it, I still invest in the monthly transit pass because the car is for going in between cities and special circumstances within the city.

That said, I think renting a car is a great idea for your trip, but I would actually use it. Things are different, but not crazily so. Going through France to Italy you could stop and see Lyon for a couple days. Stop in Nice/Monaco, Milan, Genova, etc... Basically extend the time you are taking between places to see more and make for an easy pace.

Practical issues. Speed cameras exist and you won't recognize them right away, set the cruise control and don't worry about it. The passing lane is really the passing lane;stay right when you are not actively passing. People really take that seriously. As was mentioned, make sure manual transmission is not an issue for either you or your wife, just in case you twist an ankle or just don't want to drive.

horseymen

Although I'm trying to be researched - and I have spent hours on hours reading threads on here and fodors (and others), with this being our first time in Europe and a foreign language speaking country other than Mexico, I know we will make mistakes, we will have errors, we will have regrets and miss out on 80% of the things that make France and Italy great. We'll probably get a ticket, probably get scammed, probably deal with at least one or two uncomfortable situations that are cultural faux-pas. That being said, I plan on getting right back on the horse next year and doing it again, and learning from those mistakes. I really don't plan on this being our only trip, or even a once every 2-3 year sorta thing.

I'm willing to give up a whole culture immersion experience for a little bit of convenience this time, just so I know what to expect for a bit more the next time, a bit more the next time, etc.. We've done a 6 hour flight before on Southwest, but we've never done a 10 hour flight with a partial overnight. I have no idea how the girls will react. It could be a nightmare waiting to happen for the first couple of days of adjustment. We've always traveled West - but never this many hours east - so new experience for me as well.

We are going from May 24th to July 2nd.

I did a lot of airbnb research, and just for what we're used to and what I think our kids are comfortable with, I thought the Marriott seemed a better fit. The AirBNB that I thought best fit us was in the 17th arr. - and would have had to park 3/4ths a mile away at 30 euros a day, and it was slightly more expensive than the price we got at the Marriott before parking. The guy admitted the air conditioning was spotty at best, internet only worked great in the living room - pretty bad in the bedrooms, and the bedrooms wouldn't black out.

Everything closer to the city and nicer was getting way out of our price range. I'm a $100 a night sorta guy - and you just can't do that in Paris, so we went up to $200 and did points for the other half in Rome. The Marriott 2-bedroom villas are now going for 300euro (which if my math is right, is $400usd) - so we definitely booked smart/early.

Definitely booked an Automatic as I can't do a stick (or I guess I should say I've never done a stick - I'd have to learn) - and one of my biggest fears is getting there and hearing the "Whoops! We're out!" speech.

I wanted to do a more comprehensive and ambitious trip for the first time - going to places for just 3-4 days, but wife shot it down. Wanted to be super conservative on the first trip. When mama ain't happy...

We made a list of everything we could think of (pre-research) that we wanted to do in Europe. The two biggest cities with things on the list were Paris and Rome - which is how we came about our decision to go there. London was 3rd, and I thought it might be quite a bit of culture shock to do London (with the wrong side of the road thing) as well as Paris and Rome. My wife has gotten mad at me for being overly ambitious in planning too much, so I've been working on cutting back - and realizing there will be more trips.

Example - last summer in our 6 week trip, on week 4 in Florida, she came down with an upper respiratory infection. Twins and I avoided it, but that pretty much kept us locked down at the resort for a week. Could happen again - so I think that's why my wife wants to just have two spots and not be overly ambitious yet. What if the girls don't handle it well? What if someone gets sick? Girls still take a nap in the middle of the day, so not planning too much is pivotal. I'm sure a hardcore travel family would do everything we plan on doing in 6 weeks in 10 days, but just a less stress filled trip seems to outweigh the pros that I completely know, and in a different world, I'd probably be right there. We're going to miss Scandanavia on this trip, probably limited time in the Alps if any, no UK, heck, I thought it would be fun go down and ferry to Algeria just to say we've been on the African continent. No Greece, no Turkey (can do the same thing in Istanbul to say you've been to Asia!), none of the eastern countries.. will be a lot left on the table, which means a lot of incentive to come back next year!

I do understand gas is way pricier than what I'm used to - but reports say the VW Passat gets 50-60mpg, which even at $9 a gallon seems a lot cheaper than a minivan getting 25mpg driving through California at 4.50 a gallon last summer. I have no idea what to expect for Tolls yet, though.

Hopefully we'll roll with the flow and learn a lot about Parisian culture at the same time.

So no good restaurants or monuments or anything between Paris and Frankfurt? (Other than the Cathedral someone mentioned?) - is it just wine-land? Mountains?

RTW1

It really pains me to see that with all that research, you apparently focused on only the US centric sites and hotel chains or placed everything in a context you knew..... like not staying in an apartment in the city due to the lack of airco (really who needs that in Paris in May, or ever...).

And now you're in two remote locations outside of two big cities, that although nice, will not let you experience so much of the countries you're visiting. And will take you forever everyday to get into the cities as well. Paris is great for about 5 days, what are you going to be doing there the other 15? A real shame in my opinion for someone who has the time to spend 6 weeks in Europe.

Please do yourself at least the favor of using that car and plan some decent day trips, maybe even with a night is a smaller town or in a local hotel somewhere outside of a big city.
And don't fret about the restaurants, you will easily find those.

UAPremExecflyer

I would strongly echo RTW1's sentiments about choice of location and general principle.
And would also point out a couple of inherent and significant contradictions in your planning.
You talk about "wild hairs" and "driving to London"; yet your wife wants to be "super conservative" on this trip. Which is it?
I trust your research has revealed if you pursue going across the Channel to, you will need to get that sorted out before you leaving FRA as additional paperwork and insurance in required?
You are "working 4-6 hours each day"? This is a vacation?
And you are comfortable if "you miss out on 80% of things that make France and Italy great". Really? Why bother going?
On one level your approach seems somewhat well-intentioned. But also misguided.

horseymen

I can understand why you said what you said and feel what you feel. I am a college professor. During the summer, I can work exclusively online. So, my choices in the summer are to sit in my house for 3 months, work for 4 hours, and then play with my kids and do nothing for the rest of the day when it's over 100 degrees in Texas...

OR...

I can travel, still play with my kids, and still work.

Now, since we have three year old twin girls, as another person pointed out, it's probably not the ideal time TO travel, but I have 3 months with the ability to travel - and I have the point balance/financial means to travel, so why not?

I think if your choices were to sit in suburban Texas and swelter in the heat without any specific place to be and then work - or drive around Paris for a few hours, catch a glimpse of the Eiffel Tower, learn a bit about local customs, see what a supermart in France looks like, try crepes and fresh baked bread and then work - you'd probably choose the Paris option, too!

My wife wants to be super conservative because packing up 2-3 suitcases, organizing and moving new places is a pain to her. She likes to be in one place, get everything organized and use that as a central base. She doesn't mind day trips, she does mind completely packing up everything and unpacking it and trying to keep it organized. That's her thing.

I am aware that UK does not participate in the visa exchange program (Schengen?) for their autonomy, so if we were to do that, it would require its own immigration paperwork, yes.

It might not be what most people consider a vacation, but given the options, I'd rather do that than nothing.

It's why we also give ourselves more time. If something comes down the pipe and I have to spend a full day working or in a Skype meeting or something, the girls can go hit the pools or do something on property.

horseymen

I understand your point, but again keep in mind that I should have 3 months off where I work exclusively remote for the foreseeable future (unless something happens with this career!), so next year, I can be more adventurous, and the year after that, more adventurous, etc.. This is going way out of my comfort zone. I have traveled 12-16 weeks a year for the last 5-6 years, and this is the first time we're leaving the continent. A crazy trip to us previously was spending 2 weeks in Southern California, driving the Pacific Coast for a week, spending 2 weeks in Seattle/Vancouver and then driving home to Texas (which is 2200 miles!)

Doing a transatlantic flight, going to a place with a new culture, new language, new everything (with two three year olds!) for someone who has never done it is a very intimidating thing. In my research, there were a lot of dissenting voices to people even going to Europe with three year olds, as they won't remember it all, everything is much more difficult to do, etc. I think these were people thinking about vacation as a once a year/one shot thing as opposed to (hopefully!) a lifestyle. I would much rather error on the conservative side and then go more immersion next year than to error on the complete immersion side and be miserable because something doesn't take. That's just a personal choice. On one hand, I think you see it as 6 weeks wasted because there's so much I'm missing - that I am getting America with a side dish of Paris instead of getting Paris with a side dish of America. I am looking at the half glass full and seeing it as a 6 week start to hopefully a life-long engagement with Europe. Let me have a few dishes here, and then move to the buffet. To me, it's a marathon and not a sprint.

YVR Cockroach

Just a reminder that driving in Europe is a little bit more hands (and brain) on than in U.S./Canada. Lots of obstacles on the roads and they're not straight and wide as you may be used to. Don't pay attention for just a bit (manual driving helps as I find it keeps you focussed) and the consequences can be devastating. And then try driving on the wrong side of the road if you head over the english channel.

I've been driving where two small cars can barely get pass each other and there's no shoulder - at all. One (small) mistake and your car is tipped over and may be resting on a concrete drain.

If I were you, I'd skip Paris and go into the French country and rent a gîte (see www.gite-de-france.com) - a self-contained unit(*) - and explore the small towns and villages. It'd be a lot more relaxing and you can really sample life in France (my wife and I have spent the last 5 months in the west and south).

* - bed linen and/or towels may not be included in the price

UAPremExecflyer

Incorrect. As US citizens you do not need visas for the UK or Germany or Italy or anywhere in the EU.
You're mixing up two different things. My reference to paperwork was for the car - if you want to take it from Germany into Italy make sure the rental company allows it (some models are prohibited and others require additional paperwork and mandatory theft protection insurance). If you want to take the car from Germany into the UK, you will absolutely need additional paperwork and insurance before leaving FRA.

MaxVO

I confirm those fuel economy numbers are accurate, but only for a Diesel Passat (preferably a manual). Make sure you rent the right model (TDI), and be careful not to get any gasoline into its fuel tank.

Aviatrix

You twice mentioned "driving around Paris", and I'm surprised no one has picked up on that so far. Driving around Paris (or Rome, or London, or Berlin, or any major European city) really is no fun - I'd go so far as to say it's a nightmare. It's nothing like driving around major cities in the USA. Leave the car at the hotel, or at a train station on the outskirts (google "Paris Park and Ride") - driving into Paris would be madness.

And while I understand your reasons for staying put in one hotel for several weeks (because that's what my family did when my brother and I were small) I still think you've picked the wrong place. I would have gone for a small town an hour or so from Paris - somewhere that's a destination in itself but can be used as a base for day trips to Paris -, and I would have spent some days taking the train to Paris and others going exploring by car. But I guess you're committed to your booking now, and that it's too late to change it.