rawr703

Hello All! I am back from Down Under and buried in snow so it's time to plan my next trip: Europe.

Turns out I can't edit the thread title. Woops. I'm moving toward the finer details of planning now. Any input/suggestions for how long to spend in the cities of Brussels, Ghent, Bruges and Antwerp will be greatly appreciated. I booked my transatlantic flights with Aer Lingus, so if anyone has experience with them please share! For a little less than $1200 r/t I got JFK-DUB-BRU, LHR-DUB-JFK. The stop in Dublin is short, less than 2 hours, and the price included "choice" seat, meal & 1 checked bag.

My dates are mostly flexible, with a handful of exceptions.
Outline:
June 5: JFK to BRU
June 6-14-ish: Brussels, Ghent, Bruges, Antwerp, travel between cities via train.
June 14-ish: Train to Amsterdam
June 14-18: Hard dates for Amsterdam. I have concert tickets
June 18: Flight to Milan.
June 18-21: Hard dates for Milan
June 21: Train to Rome.
June 21-25: Rome/Vatican
June 25: Flight to Berlin.
June 25-28: Hard dates for Berlin.
June 28: Fly to London.
June 28-July 7ish: London, day trips to Cardiff, Stonehenge, possibly Oxford.
July 7: Train to Leeds.
July 7-10: Hard dates for Leeds, possible day trip to York included.
July 10: Train to London.
July 11: Day trip to MK.
July 12-20: No idea.
July 21: Flight from LHR.

Looking for recommendations for a lightweight carry on with wheels.

Advice on visas welcome too, I'm not even sure if I need one for all of Europe or one for each country and how I would even go about finding this out.

EDIT:
Just wanted to mention this IS my first trip to Europe but I'm in my late 20s, not backpackings/hostelling and my trip is planned around a handful of concerts. I know I'm skipping a lot of the "major" or "iconic" European cities but that's cuz this is not that trip, you know?

OverThereTooMuch

You don't have enough points to do anything with them, so I don't think there's any point in looking for more there. That would also add more limits on where/when you could fly.

It's not clear what specific questions you have. As you mention, much of your itinerary has hard dates, so not really any feedback we can provide there.

Check the Mileage Run forum to find cheaper flights. Since you're travelling in peak season, you may not want to wait too long for a deal. The main thing to keep in mind here is flexibility of your starting point. So instead of a direct flight, maybe you'll have to stop in another US/CA/EU airport first.

Train to AMS seems like a better idea than flying.

Yes, there's a train from Leeds to MK.

In my limited research, it appears that there are strict carry-on limits on domestic travel in the UK. 6 or 7kg. Anecdotal info from FT suggests that as long as the bag looks light (like it doesn't have things bursting out of the zippers), it won't get weighed in most places. Checked baggage is generally limited to 20-25kg before you get hit with an extra fee. I don't know if flights within Europe have the same general limitations.

International flights typically have better baggage allowances.

Good luck.

pbiflyer

The Milan International airport is no where near Milan. Not sure if there is local one closer. But if you fly out of Malpinsa, it is a ways out there.
I like the train. How many hours is it from Milan to Rome by train. Nice countryside IIRC along the way.

ydnpa

Leeds to Milton Keynes requires at least one change, advance fares are available if you book specific trains but not on the quickest routes, an advance fare for a month out currently £46.
Not sure if you can amend dates in Leeds slightly, the Tour de France starts in Leeds on 5th July

helosc

Definitely train to Amsterdam. Fast trains from Brussels and Antwerp.
( Antwerp is worth a visit since you are in the area ).

Train from Milan to Rome only about 3 hours.
The Italian high speed trains are very comfortable.

Hand luggage on SAS and Lufthansa : 8 kilos. 55 x 40 x 23 cm.
I assume it is the same with other European airlines.

Uglook

Belgium-Netherlands: definitely train and you can spend a day in Antwerp or Rotterdam.

Milan-Rome: only 3 hours on Frecciarossa train center-to-center. Obvious choice with luggage.

You can probably save on airfare booking Amsterdam-Milan and Rome-Berlin as one ticket (double open jaw).

stut

For Belgium, local train travel is quick, regular and incredibly cheap.

From Bruges to Amsterdam, the easiest way is to travel by train via Brussels, using the Thalys trains for the second half. The Dutch High-Speed Rail website can book this for you - this leg should be booked in advance for decent fares (as little as €35). Takes about 3h.

Amsterdam-Milan, Rome-Berlin and Berlin-London are best flown, unless you particularly want to travel by train, or on overnight sleeper services. Services like dohop.com and skyscanner.net are really useful for comparing low-cost and legacy options (although do factor in baggage fees, and transportation costs to/from secondary airports in your comparison).

In Milan, you have a choice of three airports: Linate, Malpensa and Bergamo (Orio al Serio). The first is close to town, and a short taxi ride, with domestic and short-haul flights. The second is some distance from town, but has a half-decent rail connection. The last is basically in another town, but used by some low-cost airlines. It's a lengthy bus ride.

In Italy, Milan to Rome is served by great high-speed trains. Again, book in advance for best fares. There are two companies offering the service: Trenitalia and Italo/NTV. The latter has better trains but less convenient stations. Takes about 3h.

For the UK, book the trains as soon as the cheap tickets are released - ideally about 12 weeks before travel. Don't use RailEurope, they will rip you off. A site like http://tickets.eastcoast.co.uk/ is easy to use. Do also look at first class fares (although there is no first class on Cardiff-Manchester trains).

London to Cardiff is on First Great Western, takes about 2h.

Cardiff to Leeds is not direct - you'd need to change in Manchester or travel via London. Actually, the route via Manchester is rather pretty - you get to travel on the Welsh Marches and Huddersfield lines, both of which are pretty scenic. Downside is that you're on middle-distance trains, rather than the long-distance ones. Alternative is to travel via London.

Leeds to Milton Keynes is also not direct. Again, travel via Manchester is probably the best and easiest option.

MK to London is a dead easy train ride - you have the choice of three rail companies (including one going direct to local stations in west and SW London). Virgin are the fastest, and the fares are confusing, but there's no advantage to booking in advance. There are something like 8 trains an hour, although some are stoppers that get overtaken.

stut

One thought that could make some of the travel easier...

You could do Berlin - Bristol (a 1h40 bus journey from the airport direct to Cardiff), then Cardiff - London and London - Leeds. It might make some of your travel slightly easier and faster (if a little less scenic).

stut

Oh, and you might want to consider a stopoff between Milan and Rome - up to you as to how many days you feel are appropriate in each, of course. However, with the Milan-Rome trains stopping in Florence, I'd be severely tempted...

tyn

Milan Malpensa Airport is connected by shuttle train (aprox 30 minutes) or shuttle bus (aprox 50 minutes). You could look at flights landing at city airport Linate but you will have less choice of flights.

Definitely take the high speed train from Milan to Rome. Takes just under three hours, you arrive smack in the city centre and get to see a bit of countryside.

Enjoy the Pearl Jam Tour

rawr703

hahahaha I had a feeling someone was going to figure that out! Thank you, I intend to. From what everyone is saying I'll definitely look into the train between Milan and Rome in lieu of a flight.

Sorry what does this mean? I will try searching for Multi-City options, I hadn't thought of that. Thank you.

Stut thanks for all your input. I had originally wanted to do Cardiff first then go back to London BUT it's slightly complicated because I have a friend flying into London from NY to spend a week sightseeing with me. Now that you mention that the train is only a 2 hour ride, I'm wondering if it wouldn't make sense to do Cardiff as a day trip instead? Unfortunately there seems to be something wrong with the First Great Western website so I can't see the timetables but if there are trains returning to London late at night it might make sense to just have a very long day (or an overnight) in Cardiff while based in London. That would certainly make things easier me to travel to Leeds and for my guest who'd be flying out of London. Very, VERY interesting.




I'll keep the 8kg weight limit in mind. If anyone has recommendations for lightweight luggage....

Thanks for all the feedback this is exactly what I needed! xx

I've looked into sleeper trains using the info/links on seat61.com. It's definitely do-able, but we're talking about a 16+hour ride. I ruled it out between Amsterdam and Milan because I only have 2 days between shows, and the Rome-Berlin trip is 18 hours.

exilencfc

You can do Cardiff as a day trip from London. Having a quick plan with national rail, the last direct train back seems to be the 2125 departure arriving at 2345 but there's also a 2140 departure arriving at 0037 though you have to change in Bristol.