welltravelled88

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but anyway...

I used to go to Israel a lot. But:

* Once upon leaving with LY, after two hours checking my baggage in every possible way, the IAA decided to keep my computer for further search (along with some other electronic items). I complained to LY who passed to the IAA who passed it to their insurers, who sent me USD 800 as compensation. But that hardly compensates for me being without my life for three days -- especially when I don't have a spare computer and my backup drive at hand !

* Scared off by this experience, the following time I left overland over the Allenby Bridge to Jordan -- but apparently they had me on some sort of watch list. Not only the Israelis questioned me for six hours, but they also alerted their Jordanian counterparts, who confiscated my passports and mobile phones along with an "invitation" to report to their Intelligence HQ within three days.

* I heard of several more passengers to whom a computer had been confiscated, and witnessed one such case myself.

(NB: I am not Muslim, Arab, or Arab-looking. I have no police or other record in Israel or anywhere else. I simply guess that my creative mix of different reasons to visit Israel including "great beaches" and a "semi-girlfriend" -- which was the plain truth -- didn't fit a particular profile)

So my question is: does it still happen that they take computers and keep them for days ?

Essentially, as I travel really fast, I just can't afford the risk -- and am avoiding going to TLV altogether unless I can be sure this won't happen.

awayIgo

Why do I think there is more to you than you are admitting?

Houminer

I don't think anyone here will be able to give you an accurate answer.
My guess is that you are on some "list". The things that happened to you are very rare (to the general public) but there is a good chance it will happen again (to you).

Doc Savage

Do you have a lot of quality porn on your computer? That would certainly require a lengthy stay with security for indepth study.

joshwex90

The only people here qualified to give you an answer (there are some) cannot give you a qualified answer. That's the same with anything.

Taking away a computer at TLV and then conferring with Jordanian counterparts to have them confiscate a cellphone and passport indicates a serious matter. This wasn't random and if you don't have a clue why this happened to you (not that you haven't posted, but you seriously are baffled as to why you would be singled out, and note that looking and sounding Arab wouldn't result in this procedure), you should contact an Israeli lawyer at your earliest possible convenience to help you navigate.

welltravelled88

Well, genuinely, I think that it's simply that I didn't / don't feel a typical traveller profile. As we all know, IAA agents (+ Shin'Beth ?) at TLV ask all kinds of questions to travellers on departure. One of the first questions is "what was the reason for your visit ?", to which they expect a simple answer like "doing business with company X on behalf of my company Y", "visiting family members X and Y (especially for Jews and also overseas Palestinians)", "going to the wedding of my friend Z", and so on...

Replies like "I had a lot of miles and nothing better to do, and I like the beaches here" are suspicious.

In my case, I often do complex itineraries squeezing the most out of my tickets, like I could easily do GVA IST TLV CAI ADD DAR JNB (all without stopovers -- always less than 24 hours). How is that going to look in terms of traveller profile ? And what about a mileage run, if I just say "I needed X miles and TLV was a good price so I came for one night" ? That kind of answers will indeed warrant suspicion and a thorough search in their eyes.

Then if you add things like "I had dinner with rabbi X, though I am not Jewish" (they are not allowed to ask if you're Jewish, but do everything to guess it -- so you might as well tell them), "I went to see an Arab Christian friend in Nazareth", "I have a semi-girlfriend whom I picked up at a bar in Allenby Street during my last visit", and so on, then it does look even more suspicious.

Actually for my very last visit I had no problem. I was genuinely going to a friend's wedding. So I came straight from Europe and back and didn't take my laptop and other stuff with me. The only question they asked on departure was the reason for my visit, I said "a friend's wedding", they asked my friend's name and I said "Ghil'ad" (a very Jewish name) and that was it... Anyway I had nothing to lose: I came from home and was going back home in Europe, and didn't have a computer to be confiscated. And I had shown up at departures four hours before, prepared for questioning.

But my concern / fear now, is that I would really want to include TLV in one of my odd itineraries. The one that came up last time was like BKK RGN PEK ICN DEL MUM MCT KWI CAI TLV IST GVA or similar (though I didn't manage in the end), but I dropped TLV from the list because of those concerns. First, I will have my computer when I fly this kind of route. Second, I am quite sure that the itinerary alone, combined with lack of a reason for my visit, will raise suspicious. "I am addicted to travelling, getting and spending miles, I love passport stamps" just won't do it.

On one occasion when entering, I kindly asked immigration what colour the passport stamp would be, as they seem to change colour regularly. This has a simple reason: I own one of the most complete collection of passport stamps in the world (about 70 passports now, with stamps from all sovereign nations and many others), and I like every two facing pages to have a good mix of colours. This question alone, and then my explanation for the question, warranted about one hour of questioning at some kind of secondary-level inspection. And that's entry -- which is nothing compared to the ordeals of exit...

(Yes, I do have a Guinness World Record associated with my travels -- maybe I should bring a copy next time and just explain my travel addiction that way...)

As for something more serious, well, I did go to Ramallah to visit UN friends a couple of times, and have once visited Ghaza too. But that doesn't seem to be "serious stuff", except when you add it to the above context I suppose.

Anyway I know that the IAA is in good faith when questioning passengers and confiscating their computer. So, on those grounds, my real question is whether they have better technology now, that allows them to do the job in one or two hours rather than keep the computer. And based on their explanations (which may or may not be true), the reason for keeping electronics is not to look at data on them, but to find explosives or whatever which could be hidden inside them in a way that can't easily be detected.

Doc Savage

"What is the purpose of your trip?"
"Tourism."
"Welcome to Israel."

My advice is to give simple honest answers and otherwise just shut your yap.

joshwex90

I don't understand - you're saying that answers like visiting beaches, or burning miles, or whatever raise suspicion? If so, that's just not true.

Also, having dinner at some rabbi without being Jewish is also not strange. In Israel, ever other person and his dog is a rabbi. Also not sure how this would come up in the course of questioning, and I continue to think that either that's not exactly what happened OR (and more likely) there's a lot more to this story then you're letting on

welltravelled88

Well, one of the times I visited (no computer confiscation then) it was pretty much like that. Reason for your visit ? Tourism. What did you visit ? The beaches in TA and whatever. Why come to an "unusual" place like Israel ? Well, because I have been everywhere else and I really like Israel.

The first time I got questioned at length, after I was good to go, they politely said something like "To avoid this, next time get your Israeli host or friends to come with you" -- and they seemed to mean it -- I would have a lot less trouble if an Israeli whom I had come to visit could 'vouch' for me.

There really isn't more to this -- not that I know anyway. To me, just unusual itineraries and so on. Itineraries (and passport stamps) that did include Lebanon, Syria, Libya and the like -- which may indeed be an aggravating factor.

To me, the only rational explanation is a combination of unusual profile, very unusual itinerary, past or future visits to countries that are at odds with Israel, and so on.

I have genuinely had a very understanding and open attitude with them at all times. I think they are doing this for the good of Israel, and I empathize with the people of Israel for putting up with so much nonsense from their neighbours. So I always cooperated and understood they were just doing their job in fully good faith.

yosithezet

So we already see that you aren't sharing everything. The first post mentioned nothing about Gaza and Ramallah. It is also clear that rather than simply give straightforward simple answers you tend to go on and on telling stories to add background. All of that likely triggers more and more "curiously" which then leads to more and more questioning.

IIRC, during the TLV DO back in '05, there was a couple that came from the US via Greece or Rome and they had lots of questioning. OZStamps, I think, came a crazy route through like Azerbaijin or Armenia or some such and had no in-depth questioning. It has as much to do with your demeanor as it does with what you are stating.

Be truthful, but brief, in your answers and you'll fare much better.

clubman

What's a "Semi" girlfriend?

yosithezet

I'm guessing a yeziza or FWB. But I'm imagining the poster going into details with security explaining how they aren't really a committed couple, but me at this bar, chat now and then, yada yada.... And security handing him off to someone else who has more time to dig into and understand what he is going on about.

shuly

That is correct. Last week I accompanied a friend to the airport. It was her first time in Israel, she had an unusual itinerary, she stayed for two weeks and she traveled a lot during her visit. I prepared her for some grilling, and waited with her for security. As the agent came by, she asked who was flying and I answered, in Hebrew, only she. I asked politely whether I could stay there, and the agent asked for my ID. Once she saw it, she gave my friend "the Israeli treatment": did you pack yourself, where was your luggage since, do you have anything sharp, the reason I'm asking is... And that was it.

I commented on that, and the agent said "it is always better to be there in person", meaning that when a foreigner is going through security accompanied by an Israeli (who passes their profiling, of course, but that's a different matter) they are treated like locals.

Shuly

welltravelled88

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Well, I didn't mention having been to Ramallah or Ghaza because that should be no big deal really. Ramallah has great nightlife and good restaurants. Ghaza is a bit more conflictive but hey, I have UN friends in both places -- that shouldn't be unusual. I thought that the visits to Lebanon, Syria etc would attract more doubts instead.

Re a "semi-girlfriend", it means a girl who I picked up and we liked each other -- what else....

Anyway, there seems to be consensus that if you have an unusual itinerary and no clear simple reason, things can get tricky. A typical route for me, if I include TLV, would be GVA IST TLV CAI ADD DAR JNB FIH, stopping less than 24 hours in each location (this is with UA award tickets -- see the thread in that forum re their flexible routing rules if interested).

So it may go something like:
Q: What was the reason for your visit ?
A: Just a quick stopover on the way from Geneva to Kinshasa
Q: From Geneva to Kinshasa via TA ?! Can I see your ticket / itinerary please ?
A: Sure. It is a UA award ticket -- costs the same to stop by except for the taxes.
Q: Eh ? You arrived yesterday from Istanbul, now you are going to Cairo and then on to Addis and... What were you doing in Israel ?
A: Well, I had dinner in my favourite restaurant with an old frien, a night out in Allenby Street, briefly the beach this morning, that's it.
Q: What did you do in Istanbul ?
A: Saw a colleague, went to have dinner by the Bosphorus
Q: What will you do in Cairo ?
A: See the Egyptian museum.
Q: Why see museum now that Egypt can be dangerous ?
A: Because it's impossible to see the museum properly when Egypt is safe -- too many tourists.
--- and so on so on....

Now my original question remains. Compared to five years ago or so, has the chance of them wanting to keep your computer actually decreased ?

yosithezet

No. It is the same.