Was this woman running a "wheelchair scam?"
#16
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
One should never assume they are able to diagnose anyone's ailments from the outside. People who use wheelchair service may be doing so for a variety of issues that are not visible, e.g. pain, balance issues etc. Never judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their (wheelchair!)
It's doing a great disservice to those who are truly in need of a wheel chair.
These days, most Americans who need a wheel chair, have their own.
#17
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,821
One should never assume they are able to diagnose anyone's ailments from the outside. People who use wheelchair service may be doing so for a variety of issues that are not visible, e.g. pain, balance issues etc. Never judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their (wheelchair!)
Actually, I agree with you, somewhat, but there are definitely plenty of fakers out there.
#18
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: LAN, AA, SPG
Posts: 1,965
I think you are preaching to the choir here. The word "scam" is not being used for people in a wheel chair who don;t "look" disabled, but for people in a wheel chair, who board a plane in a wheel chair, but are miraculously cured when they arrive at the end of the flight.
It's doing a great disservice to those who are truly in need of a wheel chair.
These days, most Americans who need a wheel chair, have their own.
It's doing a great disservice to those who are truly in need of a wheel chair.
These days, most Americans who need a wheel chair, have their own.
#19
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Posts: 22,778
I hear you, but I think it is amazing that you assume you can tell with absolute certainty that they are "cured" unless you have some special powers the rest of us do not. Reminds me of a certain senator who "diagnosed" based on a video clip. The only question I have for you is: isn't there some possibility that you are wrong about some of your diagnoses?
Here is the problem.
There are three types of wheel chair users at airports.
There are three types of wheel chair users at airports.
- People with nearly no mobility at all. If it were not for a wheel chair, they would not be travelling.
- People whose mobility is impaired but can get about without a wheel chair with various degrees of difficulty. This forms a continuum. This also includes people who are recovering from an accident or surgery.
- People who have discovered "perks" of a wheel chair. In a world where elite travel perks, such as, priority lines, priority boarding and seating, are visible, some people have found a way to get the perks they want via a wheel chair. For them a wheel chair is a privilege or a valet service.
No I am not. Read my posts from the beginning. Do you have some special powers to read my mind? It's good to keep practice to keep an open mind, not simply parroting the idea.
It's even a better idea to read and understand what you read before start accusing others.
Last edited by Yaatri; Jul 15, 2012 at 6:49 am
#20
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Location: Denver DEN-APA
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Especially NYC-PBI where many pax that require wheelchairs in NYC have miraculous inflight healing and don't require them in PBI.
#21
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
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Not wheelchair related, but a decade ago I broke my big toe. I travelled soon afterwards, and wanted to pre board to make sure I didn't hurt it in a crowd of boarders. One flight no problem, the next the GA gave me a hard time. Not fun at all.
#22
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Posts: 22,778
Even now that I have recovered from surgery, I can walk, but have a great deal of difficulty standing in once place, like a line, especially one, that's not moving, like one at a security checkpoint or on a Jetway when someone when some one has blocked the aisle bringing the line to a halt. I am usually in F, but of miss F boarding, I could be stuck on a jetway. Some days it's difficult to walk also, as some days are worse than others. But I don't use a wheel chair because I like to walk. I know how frustrating it is to not be able to walk using your legs.
I had said up-thread that there are three categories of people in wheel chairs. I suppose the number of categories could be whittled down to two.
Those who would love to be able to walk but are in a wheel chair instead.
Those who can, with varying degree of difficulties but love to be in a wheel chair at predictable times.
Last edited by Yaatri; Jul 15, 2012 at 7:41 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: LAN, AA, SPG
Posts: 1,965
You may hear me, but you certainly don't read.
No I am not. Read my posts from the beginning. Do you have some special powers to read my mind? It's good to keep practice to keep an open mind, not simply parroting the idea.
It's even a better idea to read and understand what you read before start accusing others.
First of all, I will concede that of course there are people who abuse the system. However, you say that you understand, via personal experience, that there are people who have little or no trouble walking but can NOT comfortably stand still --- as in long lines. Would it not make sense then that there are those who use wheelchair services for boarding when there can be extremely long lines but then don't need them upon arrival (where lines are not an issue) when as you say they are "cured"?
You admit that "there is no fool proof way to judge or distinguish" "until they start walking." So at the point they "start walking" you can then judge??? I'm sorry but I just find that very presumptuous and judgmental.
That you say people can be divided up into finite numbers of categories is an example of the kind of thinking which many people who live with disabilities find deeply offensive; I was unable to find myself in any of your categories.
Last edited by phlashba; Jul 15, 2012 at 10:58 am Reason: correction
#24
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
I was ready to accept your apology, but then I saw the rest of your post. I don't understand what it is you are trying to do. Are you on some kind of crusade? My ambivalence is quite evident.
First of all, I will concede that of course there are people who abuse the system. However, you say that you understand, via personal experience, that there are people who have little or no trouble walking but can NOT comfortably stand still --- as in long lines. Would it not make sense then that there are those who use wheelchair services for boarding when there can be extremely long lines but then don't need them upon arrival (where lines are not an issue) when as you say they are "cured"?
I also know from personal experience some use it just because --- and this is not a conjecture.
So why do dissect my post and relating one kind of personal experience while ignoring the other kind. I think your objection is quite irrational.
You are beginning to annoy me now. Why are you so obsessed with tearing my post apart? What is it you are trying to achieve?
Frankly I don't care what you think.
You are looking too hard to find something to be offended. What is so offensive about it? You find innovative ways of being offended while being quite offensive yourself. Tell me more about you. I will put you in a category too, or even devise one for you. Seriously I am not making laws here. So lets not get too serious with yourself here. No one else has said they were offended.
#25
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 216
I am disabled, the more I move the more my calcium levels drop which leads to numbness, heart issues and if things get bad enough seizures. I have a handicapped parking badge to avoid walking in general. It isn't something anyone can see, and I push myself way more than I should. DH tried to get my to use a wheelchair last time I flew but I was too embarrassed. I needed IV calcium upon arrival at my destination and after my return home because of my stubbornness.
My son is also disabled, tube fed and needs oxygen during flight (as well as sleeping even on the land) so the airline knows he is coming. No matter how much we insisted that we had his stroller (he is six, was five when we flew last) they kept ordering a wheelchair for him, that we kept refusing. With all of his equipment getting through the airport was a bear though.
Next time though, I may well be the suitcase wielding, walking to my seat and where I need to, wheelchair riding lady. It certainly is what my doctors would prefer and would make me journey a lot safer.
My son is also disabled, tube fed and needs oxygen during flight (as well as sleeping even on the land) so the airline knows he is coming. No matter how much we insisted that we had his stroller (he is six, was five when we flew last) they kept ordering a wheelchair for him, that we kept refusing. With all of his equipment getting through the airport was a bear though.
Next time though, I may well be the suitcase wielding, walking to my seat and where I need to, wheelchair riding lady. It certainly is what my doctors would prefer and would make me journey a lot safer.
#26
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: In a hotel somewhere trying to repack everything I brought (and bought) in to a carry-on smaller than my last one.
Programs: UA, Asia Miles, Southwest, IHG
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I found that many airlines prefer, or more accurately find it easier, to deal with black and white categories, so sometimes "can walk but cannot ascend/descend stairs" becomes "yes-wheelchair" at certain airports because there is no up-to-date information on whether there will be stairs between the plane and the curb. Sometimes it's not the person, but the airline that insists on the wheelchair.
#27
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I found that many airlines prefer, or more accurately find it easier, to deal with black and white categories, so sometimes "can walk but cannot ascend/descend stairs" becomes "yes-wheelchair" at certain airports because there is no up-to-date information on whether there will be stairs between the plane and the curb. Sometimes it's not the person, but the airline that insists on the wheelchair.
Airlines have suggested a wheel chair to me on many many times.
I prefer to walk though.
I know some people can't. I can though.
#28
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: None - fairly infrequent flier
Posts: 33
Here's the deal. I have Multiple Sclerosis. Diagnosed 7 years ago but have probably had it for 30+ years according to my Neurologist.
I cannot stand in line for more than a couple of minutes without terrible, buring pain in my feet. No one knows this but me. I cannot walk great distances through large airport terminals because of weak legs. No one knows this but me.
I take 3 times as long to negotiate a downward sloping jetway than I do to exit through an upward sloping jetway. Don't ask me why......I don't know.......it's just the way it is.
If you saw me sitting in a wheelchair or exiting an upward sloping jetway, you'd probably judge that I have no or minimal disability, but you'd be wrong. I'm embarrassed to use a wheelchair, but it's the only way I can travel these days, so wheelchair it is! People can just judge away and whisper about my apparent lack of disability.........I don't hear too well these days either!!
I cannot stand in line for more than a couple of minutes without terrible, buring pain in my feet. No one knows this but me. I cannot walk great distances through large airport terminals because of weak legs. No one knows this but me.
I take 3 times as long to negotiate a downward sloping jetway than I do to exit through an upward sloping jetway. Don't ask me why......I don't know.......it's just the way it is.
If you saw me sitting in a wheelchair or exiting an upward sloping jetway, you'd probably judge that I have no or minimal disability, but you'd be wrong. I'm embarrassed to use a wheelchair, but it's the only way I can travel these days, so wheelchair it is! People can just judge away and whisper about my apparent lack of disability.........I don't hear too well these days either!!
#29
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Programs: Delta frequent flyer Gold Medallion Status
Posts: 876
It is really impossible to evaluate a person who uses a wheelchair for legitimate reasons and one who takes advantage of the system. In this case I can see myself behaving in a similar manner.
Often after we arrive at the gate I need to stand to relieve the spasms in my back. So I could easily tell a flight attendant that I preferred to stand for a few minutes.
I reserve whatever energy I have to take care of myself. It is a point of pride with me that I get my carry-on into the overhead bin by myself. It is one of the little things I do to preserve my dignity. So I would have removed my own carry-ons regardless of how heavy they might have been.
I am also a large woman. If the wheelchair pusher is small and the jetway is uphill it is often almost impossible for the pusher to get the chair up the jetway with me in it. It is so embarrassing when they have to get someone to help them push the wheelchair. To avoid this, on rare occasion, I have put my carry-on bags in the wheelchair and slowly managed my way to the end of the jetway.
Once there I am happy to plop into the wheelchair for my final destination. At the luggage carousel I do not jump out of the wheelchair, grab heavy luggage from the carousel and bounce out the door, but there maybe some other reasons why this woman was able or felt the need to retrieve her own luggage and exit the airport on her own. She may have felt she had no choice. I have been "dumped" at the luggage carousel more times than I can count, and if I did not know better I might assume that wheelchair service ends when I reach the carousel.
The bottom line is that none of us can evaluate the disabilities of another person, and it is pointless to speculate and fret over judgements we make on the basis of inadequate information.
I personally hate the wheelchair. I hate not being able to make my own decisions. I cannot shop in an airport store. I cannot stop for a snack or a beverage and certainly not for a meal. I am embarrassed when I have to ask the person to stop at the restroom. I hate being stuck at the gate while people gather around me trying to determine why I am in the wheelchair, and if it is just an attempt at early boarding I always want to shout that we have early boarding with our status so I am not doing anything I could not do without the wheelchair. I hate that crowd at the gate with everyone struggling to be the first on the plane.
I just cannot conceive of anyone deliberately using a wheelchair when it is not necessary. I am sure those of us who do depend upon them agree that it is much more pleasant to walk through the airport on our own feet.
Often after we arrive at the gate I need to stand to relieve the spasms in my back. So I could easily tell a flight attendant that I preferred to stand for a few minutes.
I reserve whatever energy I have to take care of myself. It is a point of pride with me that I get my carry-on into the overhead bin by myself. It is one of the little things I do to preserve my dignity. So I would have removed my own carry-ons regardless of how heavy they might have been.
I am also a large woman. If the wheelchair pusher is small and the jetway is uphill it is often almost impossible for the pusher to get the chair up the jetway with me in it. It is so embarrassing when they have to get someone to help them push the wheelchair. To avoid this, on rare occasion, I have put my carry-on bags in the wheelchair and slowly managed my way to the end of the jetway.
Once there I am happy to plop into the wheelchair for my final destination. At the luggage carousel I do not jump out of the wheelchair, grab heavy luggage from the carousel and bounce out the door, but there maybe some other reasons why this woman was able or felt the need to retrieve her own luggage and exit the airport on her own. She may have felt she had no choice. I have been "dumped" at the luggage carousel more times than I can count, and if I did not know better I might assume that wheelchair service ends when I reach the carousel.
The bottom line is that none of us can evaluate the disabilities of another person, and it is pointless to speculate and fret over judgements we make on the basis of inadequate information.
I personally hate the wheelchair. I hate not being able to make my own decisions. I cannot shop in an airport store. I cannot stop for a snack or a beverage and certainly not for a meal. I am embarrassed when I have to ask the person to stop at the restroom. I hate being stuck at the gate while people gather around me trying to determine why I am in the wheelchair, and if it is just an attempt at early boarding I always want to shout that we have early boarding with our status so I am not doing anything I could not do without the wheelchair. I hate that crowd at the gate with everyone struggling to be the first on the plane.
I just cannot conceive of anyone deliberately using a wheelchair when it is not necessary. I am sure those of us who do depend upon them agree that it is much more pleasant to walk through the airport on our own feet.
#30
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 270
Unfortunately, the media is picking up on this type of story and that will continue to influence the general public's perception of need...
The New York Times: A Few Passengers Use Wheelchairs to Avoid Airport Lines - October 3, 2012
TIME Magazine: Wheelchair Fakers Skip Airport Security Lines - October 8, 2012
The New York Times: A Few Passengers Use Wheelchairs to Avoid Airport Lines - October 3, 2012
TIME Magazine: Wheelchair Fakers Skip Airport Security Lines - October 8, 2012