gfunkdave

I am not sure what a killner jar is - perhaps a Mason jar? In any event, I don't have one.

I'm doing it for the novelty, mainly - just because I haven't done it before and want to try. I don't cook/bake nearly as much as I'd like. It's tough in New York - and virtually the same price to just order delivery. The last thing I want to do when I get home from work is spend time cooking, though I enjoy cooking.

I love sourdough bread. What's the difference between poolish/biga and sourdough? I thought they were different names for the same thing, or at least referred to differing amounts of sourdough starter used in the bread.

langham123

I must say I get good results from just keeping the mixed batter in a plastic bowl (with number 5 on the coding purchased from any good supermarket) covered with cling film in a draught-free place and forgetting it for a day or so. Then when it starts to bubble, feed again and cover with cling film. i found it important to beat the lumps out and mix the dough thoroughly each time. The mix should be a creamy consistency, not too watery. Repeat the third feeding when it starts bubbling. By this time it should smell beery. The timescale depends on the temperature of your room.After the third time, it's ready to divide, use half and feed the other as you require. When the reserved dough starts bubbling, after a few days or a week, its ready to use again. Divide, use one half and feed the other whenever needed.

I've had my failures due to my own fault, too much water or not so good flour but I persevered until I got it right. After all, flour and water ferment don't they - usually.....

Unfortunately it tends to take you over and in no time, you've more batter than you need and a freezer full of loaves.

I have even frozen the starter when I've gone on vacation. Taken it out after a month and after thawing, fed it with flour and water and hey presto! A new batch.

I don't use yeast with my sourdough bread and it comes up fine but it's time consuming. If you like sourdough, it's well worth the trouble. Good luck - I'm sure you'll crack it.

uk1

I've heard that some let some starter dry out, ie you know just like the the stuff that dries in the kitchen naturally. I've seen this done by leaving starter on kitchen foil until dry and then they crumble it and store it in an airtight jar. Then add it to flour with water to restart. That saves freezer or fridge space and will I guess last indefinitely. And you can send it to someone in the post!

Using hydrolysis (I think under appreciated) and then under-yeasting and letting a slower starting poolish is something I've really enjoyed.

uk1

Poolish and biga are the same thing. One French the other italian for the same thing. It is - for simplicity of description - a way of accelerating what you are doing naturally with your starter but - if you like - cheating by adding a few grammes of yeast instead of relying on natural yeasts.

So I generally make a mix of equal plain hard Canadian white flour and water and a couple of grammes of yeast and leave it over night in my mixer bowl to save avoidable things to wash. Just a quick mix with a fork and cover it with a shower cap. Then recalculate the water and the flour I add the following day to achieve the hydration percentage I want and add the salt then. Mustn't add salt the previous day as it will kill the yeast.

This is the basis of French country bread and baguettes and Neapolitan pizza and other Italian breads. It adds character and flavour but not sourness. I much prefer this to sourdough.

Most people do not understand how easy it is to make genuine baguettes at home and sometimes I make it twice a day. Anyone can do it using this method and you sort of get into an easy rhythm. It needs to be eaten as soon as it is cool, and that's why sometimes making it twice a day (only baked ie one mix a day) is a lovely bit of self-indulgence. Jam in the morning, ham or cheese (or both) at night.

The other real advantage of this approach is that you are not a prisoner to your starter - you "restart" from each new loaf, just start it the day or night before, instead of doing it all within the same day. As I said, it is easy to be sucked into the generalisation that "more work" always means "better results" but I (in a minority) prefer the taste of bread started with poolish/biga than sourdough.

langham123

Not heard that one. Never tried that method.

I agree you need to be patient with the dough starter. The longer you leave it, the better tho' too long and it turns rancid. The time between feeds varies immensely. Whilst it saves on yeast (I prefer fresh for conventional bread), it takes a longer.

But I'm not an expert, just bake for the family. Unfortunately they won't eat shop bought bread now!

I do have a gas oven, which helps as it gives a more moist heat. Tho' I use a water bath in the bottom for a crusty loaf. On the other hand it does tend to burn on 450 deg.F.

BTW, I don't think I use Canadian flour, just a mix of white and wheatmeal bread flour.

uk1

Canadian is extra hard. You can make standard bread flour harder by adding vital wheat gluten. I much prefer the higher gluten flours.

I am terribly proud of my invention with respect to making a steam oven. It is so simple.

The problem is that ideally you don't want moist heat all the way through the bake. Just the first five minutes or so, then you want to release the moisture and want dry heat for the remainder of the bake. Otherwise there is a tendency to make a sort of dumpling (exaggeration I know) if it remains moist too long during the bake. The moisture injects the initial propensity for crustyness and crispness into crust, and then the dryness crisps it up. So how to do! I spent years struggling! I finally worked it out.

i have a pizza stone for the bread. I have put a cast iron ridged steak griddle under the stone at the bottom of the oven I use for bread. That's it. I heat the oven up, put the bread in, throw a half cup of water over the griddle and slam the door shut quick. A very quick explosion of very hot steam. After five minutes or so I open the door and release the steam. A lovely shiny crispy crusty loaf.

I use my pizza oven for rolls and bagels and a narrow oven for higher bread and loafs and baguettes.

EDITED: Picture added to illustrate ...

gfunkdave

Almost two full days, and no signs of life. I wonder if the little yeasties can't make it up here to the 22nd floor.

uk1

Be patient. The yeast is everywhere, even up there! There's no salt in your mix?

gfunkdave

Not unless the cat put it in...

I suspect part of the problem is that I realized this morning that I'd turned off the heat in that room - 'twas a tad chilly!

gfunkdave

Update: I think it's working! The mix has a faint but distinctly sour smell. Also I think there may be one bubble in the top.

uk1

That's great. The slower it develops the better the character.

I'm looking forward to your first few loaves almost as much as you!

gfunkdave

Well, it's been almost a week and the starter doesn't seem to be doing much. I feed it once a day with white flour. I have started putting it on a heating pad set to low in case it's too cold here. In the mornings, there is sometimes a single bubble on the surface but the sour smell I thought I smelled a few days ago is gone.

Perhaps the yeast can't make it to the 22nd floor after all. I might add a few grains of commercial yeast to make a polish, and wait on the wild yeast to when I move to Maine.

uk1

If you are going to give up on the starter, I wouldn't add yeast to it as I think this will be the worst of all worlds.

Just start a really slow poolish from scratch. Even if some consider this in some way lessor than sourdough, it's just an opinion I disagree with. You'll get some lovely bread that is completely hassle free and better than pretty much anything you're likely to have tasted before.

gfunkdave

I'm going to give the sourdough a bit more chance. I've noticed it gets a skin of dried flour on top after several hours. This morning, I removed the skin and there were several bubbles just underneath. So something is happening.

Question: what consistency should the starter be? I think mine was a little too dry before. I now have it much wetter - almost like pancake batter.

The Joy of Cooking says to toss the starter and start over if no real activity within three days. It's been about six for me. Should I start over? If I do, I'm just going to make a poolish.

uk1

Do both.

Give up on your current starter and bin it. Start a new one. I think most start with a 50/50 mix .. but make it with ordinary hard flour or perhaps rye. Keep in mind you'll need more water if you use other than white as they all absorb more water. Have a look at some youtube stuff for consistency. If you look at the first post i think that is about right.

At the same time make poolish in your normal mixing bowl. Quick standard white bread flour and quick mix with a fork and put a shower cap over it. Do the poolish tonight for a loaf tommorow.