Air Brian

In the thread about the sale of the 777's to AA, someone mentioned that DL has several routes "in its pocket." Out of curiosity and b/c I am starting to frequent more routes not served by DL, what are the possibilities?

Threy

DL`s biggest problem right now is to sell their handling agents over here.

Rumours are spreading from everywhere that DL did not pay quite hefty sums and that some contracts will not be fullfilled or that in the future certain risk premiums will be charged.

In this circumstance their operational costs will increase further and further and I do not see any chance for more expansion, however Routes in Copenhagen is coming up the next weekend , so we will know some more planned routes in less than a week from now.

After adding DUS ( where they will have virtually no chance to survive after the Soccer World Cup biased summer season of 2006 ) certainly VIE is always a potential candidate, however airlines these days are becoming smarter again and realise that without any feeder traffic on one end of the flight, the markets are simply not big enough.

Big advantage for DL in comparison to CO ( the other US airline looking to add more European destinations ) , their 763 have far more range than the 752 CO is using, so virtually every European city can be served from DL`s hubs, which can be a plus against CO...

ClipperDelta

So far for 2006:

ATL-DUS (new; already announced)
ATL-CPH (new; should be announced soon)
JFK-KBP (new; awaiting DOT approval but shouldn't be a problem)

Additional rumors:
ATL-BHX

Apparently, some 764ERs will be converted to international BE flying as well. Some routes such as ATL-MAN and ATL-SNN/DUB may be upgraded to the 764ERs thus freeing up some more 763ERs for new routes.

IMHO, DL should look beyond the traditional European markets a bit more (KBP was a good start) as 'traditional' cities such as HAM, ARN, etc., are fast becoming saturated. For example, now that they are going to lose the SA codeshares, could they use a 772ER to do ATL-JNB (subbing an existing 777 route with a 764ER instead)?

ConnFlyer

Actually, United filed in opposition to DL's request for Ukraine frequencies. United wants those frequencies for codeshare service from MUC to Kiev. While DL's nonstop service from the US would normally trump a codeshare within Europe, UA pointed out that DL already has existing codeshare frequencies on AF. DL could simply transfer those which would allow the route to start.

I'm not sure why the Ukraine has such a restrictive bilateral with the US. You'd think they would want to encourage more US airlines....

ClipperDelta

DL currently has 3.5 frequencies (1 codeshare flight = 0.5) which allows it to have daily codeshare service. For DL to begin nonstop flights on its own metal 5 times a week, it would require 5 frequencies, more than what it currently has with the AF codeshares. There are only 4 unallocated frequencies left, which aren't even sufficient for DL's proposed 5 weekly flights, so it actually has to 'steal' 1 frequency from its existing AF codeshare to make up the shortfall. As the DOT does prefer to have nonstop service, I don't think DL will have a problem to get at least some of the frequencies from the unallocated pool (e.g., DOT could give DL 1.5 frequencies and force and tell DL to combine that with the existing 3.5 to allow DL to operate its 5 nonstops weekly)...

MastaHanky

Although not in Europe, I wonder if we might see JFK-CAI again. Or maybe even JFK-DXB...

DAL767-400ER

Adding to ClipperDelta's comment, United doesn't really have a valid interest in codeshare service to the Ukraine. In the past months, UA has had a tendency of making counter-applications for route authorities that they actually don't really have a use for. Refer to their comments when AA/CO/DL applied for UA's US-Brazil/Argentina frequencies.

Using the standard argument used by other countries, "To protect our own national carrier(s)". Not sure whether this actually is the case, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.

ConnFlyer

UA applied for the Ukraine frequencies BEFORE Delta applied. In fact, UA slammed DL's application because it is beyond the formal period of reply (to UA's filing). By the pure letter of the law, the DOT could disregard DL's application for being late.

ecaarch

I've seen Air Ukraine 732's at LGW from a distance. Appears to be the best way to experience them.

GSP flyer

SLC-CDG would be my guess, although theoretically I believe they could shift AA's unused STL designation for new service to SLC to LGW. As they've beefed it up recently with some new service, it is a possibility. Say 5X weekly with a 763?

OTOH, most of the new service that they've added has been from the East and Midwest, so there's probably not all that much more feed coming in, but the mountain west has typically had a dearth of transatlantic service. IIRC, its something like a measly 3 flights, none of which go to Paris (BA ex-PHX,DEN and LH ex-DEN). That's it, so there might be a market niche to be filled.

GUWonder

Cairo, Beirut and Dubai were all on the table prior to 2001. Regional "management" were even hired in anticipation of relocation.

DrivingRain

Anything CAL had in its long term plan as an '06 or '07 launch is what DL is going after....or at least so it seems...along with a few catch-ups from earlier CAL launches.

Apparently CO is threatening to sue for stealing their strategic plans. Glenn H and Bob C are the top 2 network guys at DL now. Glenn was SVP Network at CAL before going to Alitalia for a year and doing absolutely nothing to help them...Bob came over straight from CAL.

All of the changes in the schedule recently have less to do with the bankruptcy and more to do with Bob and Glenn putting their imprint on what they think DL's network should look like.

sxf24

I doubt we'll see Europe service from SLC in the near future.

Yields would be too low and summer weather could create payload restrictions.

DL will likely go after any major European city not served by a U.S. carrier. Major advantage to any country without an open skies agreement, as it restricts future competition (see KBP).

JRF

One of the main purposes of the alliance with AF was for DL to be able to give up European routes and use DL equipment on routes that alliance partners did not fly.

I remember in the early 90s flying DL to VIE. Then DL did the OS alliance and OS took over the route. It was great as I needed to fly to KLU and I could get there on Tyroelean on a DL ticket.

Why expand Europe if your alliance partners fly there? Will DL complete with AF on new routes of DL? This will make AF happy.

I still don't think DL knows what kind of airlines it wants to be. End the Sky Team deal once and for all or fix the allianace and make it a real competitor for Star.

sxf24

What does Star offer in Europe that Sky Team does not?