I Love New York - Landed at LGA But Can't Get to the Terminal
May 9, 2017, 6:10 am
#17
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West of CLE
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I flew through LGA last night, ORD-LGA-DCA. We landed around 1730 in really rough windy conditions on runway 31. No problems quickly parking at the MAT.
They closed the door on the DCA shuttle at 1855. It turned out that ATC moved airport operations 90 degrees, landing planes on runway 22 and taking off on runway 31. We were unable to push back until 1925. When we did push back, there were something like 25 airplanes ahead of us. There were two long lines of planes, which merged into the taxiway alongside 13-31. Amazingly, after about three consecutive landings on 22, ATC started moving planes every 30-45 seconds; we got to takeoff around 2005, which was actually remarkable (I was guessing 2030-2045).
They closed the door on the DCA shuttle at 1855. It turned out that ATC moved airport operations 90 degrees, landing planes on runway 22 and taking off on runway 31. We were unable to push back until 1925. When we did push back, there were something like 25 airplanes ahead of us. There were two long lines of planes, which merged into the taxiway alongside 13-31. Amazingly, after about three consecutive landings on 22, ATC started moving planes every 30-45 seconds; we got to takeoff around 2005, which was actually remarkable (I was guessing 2030-2045).
May 9, 2017, 7:25 am
#18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC, MSY
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I believe it's from ASDE-X
Airport Surface Detection System — Model X (ASDE-X) is a surveillance system using radar, multilateration and satellite technology that allows air traffic controllers to track surface movement of aircraft and vehicles. It was developed to help reduce critical Category A and B runway incursions.
The ASDE-X alerts air traffic controllers of potential runway conflicts by providing detailed coverage of movement on runways and taxiways. By collecting data from a variety of sensors, ASDE-X is able to track non-transponder equipped and transponder equipped vehicles and aircraft on the airport movement area.
The data that ASDE-X uses comes from the following sources:
Controllers in the tower are presented this information on a color display depicting aircraft and vehicle positions as an icon overlaid on a map of the airport's runways/taxiways and airport approach corridors. The system continuously updates the map of the airport movement area that controllers can use to enhance their situational awareness. It's particularly beneficial at night or during inclement weather when visibility is poor. The ASDE-X system is also equipped with visual and aural alarms that will alert controllers of possible runway incursions or incidents.
The ASDE-X alerts air traffic controllers of potential runway conflicts by providing detailed coverage of movement on runways and taxiways. By collecting data from a variety of sensors, ASDE-X is able to track non-transponder equipped and transponder equipped vehicles and aircraft on the airport movement area.
The data that ASDE-X uses comes from the following sources:
- Surface surveillance radar located on top of the air traffic control tower and / or surface surveillance radar located on a remote tower
- Multilateration sensors located around the airport
- Airport Surveillance Radars such as the ASR-9
- Automatic Dependent Surveillance — Broadcast (ADS-B) sensors
- Terminal automation system to obtain flight plan data.
Controllers in the tower are presented this information on a color display depicting aircraft and vehicle positions as an icon overlaid on a map of the airport's runways/taxiways and airport approach corridors. The system continuously updates the map of the airport movement area that controllers can use to enhance their situational awareness. It's particularly beneficial at night or during inclement weather when visibility is poor. The ASDE-X system is also equipped with visual and aural alarms that will alert controllers of possible runway incursions or incidents.
May 9, 2017, 10:43 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC, MSY
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I wasn't certain about your data source so I was somewhat vague. I haven't worked as an ATC for MANY years but I've been able to visit a number of facilities and enjoy keeping abreast of the technology,
May 9, 2017, 12:12 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2013
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May 9, 2017, 12:48 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2002
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EWR now seems to be having more frequent ATC delays due to the recent easing of slot controls. My sample size is small, but it looks to me that ground delay programs are becoming more common on days with relatively good weather.
What I'd like to see tried is to have the airports allocate access more like a business and less like a government. At congestion-prone airports, set slot limitations that will allow the airport to operate without significant delays then auction those slots to the airlines. Re-bid the slots periodically (quarterly) with a three or four-quarter lead time to allow airlines to publish their schedules.
The result, I hope, would be that the slots during the highest demand periods would be the most expensive which would provide incentive for the airlines to use larger airplanes in those slots and to schedule more flights in the slots where there is less demand. Fares might also vary based on the cost of its slot which would provide incentive for travelers to travel is the less congestion times. Lastly, the airports with the most congestion would raise the most money which would provide more funds for needed infrastructure improvements.
Wouldn't be perfect but it would at least provide incentives all around for behavior which would mitigate the congestion.
May 10, 2017, 7:59 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC, MSY
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There's no public access to the system and the data is only meaningful in real time.
I'm sure that the screen shot was originally posted to illustrate what a really bad day at work was like.
I doubt that the poster provides these on a continual basis. So, even if you had a link to the posters social media site, it wouldn't be useful.
I'm sure that the screen shot was originally posted to illustrate what a really bad day at work was like.
I doubt that the poster provides these on a continual basis. So, even if you had a link to the posters social media site, it wouldn't be useful.
May 10, 2017, 8:19 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC, MSY
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There seems to be some interest in the system so here are a couple of links you might find interesting.
This is a 3 hour time lapse condensed into 2 1/2 minutes of ASDE-X at LGA. What I think you'll find really interesting is the runway shift and its effect on ground operations.
For those who want a greater understanding of what the system is and how it fits into the overall scheme of ATC. check this out: http://thehill.com/sites/default/fil...ls_Total_0.pdf
This is a 3 hour time lapse condensed into 2 1/2 minutes of ASDE-X at LGA. What I think you'll find really interesting is the runway shift and its effect on ground operations.
For those who want a greater understanding of what the system is and how it fits into the overall scheme of ATC. check this out: http://thehill.com/sites/default/fil...ls_Total_0.pdf
May 10, 2017, 3:53 pm
#28
Join Date: Nov 2013
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This happens (maybe not 20+, but certainly quite a few) at LAX all the time. Maybe the move to T2/T3 will change it but I've flown into LAX several times and had to wait at least an hour to get a gate. It's not just an LGA problem.
May 11, 2017, 6:34 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: WAS
Posts: 3,010
There's no public access to the system and the data is only meaningful in real time.
I'm sure that the screen shot was originally posted to illustrate what a really bad day at work was like. I doubt that the poster provides these on a continual basis. So, even if you had a link to the posters social media site, it wouldn't be useful.
I'm sure that the screen shot was originally posted to illustrate what a really bad day at work was like.
I doubt that the poster provides these on a continual basis. So, even if you had a link to the posters social media site, it wouldn't be useful.
May 11, 2017, 12:55 pm
#30
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
Well, it was 20+ deep down in Jamaica (JFK) the other night. At one point after 10+ minutes slow taxi 2 FAs were not sure how close to takeoff we were, and I (by a window) mentioned that we had not even turned back towards the runway yet.
I swear, I spend on average more time a year on the tarmacks in each of NYC and LAX than I do in ATL, despite ATL being my home.
A hell of a lot easier to build an airport proper when one has sufficient land.
I swear, I spend on average more time a year on the tarmacks in each of NYC and LAX than I do in ATL, despite ATL being my home.
A hell of a lot easier to build an airport proper when one has sufficient land.
Last edited by exwannabe; May 11, 2017 at 1:04 pm