hockeyinsider

I flew ATL-DTW before connecting to Asia. The "lead' flight attendant (they aren't called pursers on domestic flights) was maybe 25. She was slim, very attractive, wearing heals and left a lot up to the imagination. She addressed me by name every time, served multiple rounds of drinks on a 60-minute flight, and made me feel special. By comparison, the flight attendant serving drinks and food on my business-class flight from DTW to Asia didn't even know the wine or food on tonight's flight. She was probably 65 and only had a job, presumably, because she spoke Japanese.

SeaHawg

At some point, the older FAs, who are nearly ubiquitous on international routes, should be re-accomodated to a position in customer service or training the younger FAs on soft skills.

I try and not let age be a factor when traveling, but when I pay for seats up front, it's hard not to expect the best possible service delivered by people who tend to be far more attractive and far less surly than what is currently out there on the US3.

I have never complained to DL, but I have numerous times to United. At $2-$5k per ticket, it's hard to let anything slide from a forgotten cheese plate, a forgotten drink, or just too much gabbing/noise in the galley after the cabin is dark. At some point, DL should open up those routes to the flight attendants who consistently receive 5 stars or something better than seniority alone.

SJC ORD LDR

If DL did this, the FAs would unionize in an instant.

bergamini

This thread makes me sad for humanity and has caused me to lose respect for some FT'ers.

Where it really went wrong is when many people equated a degraded premium cabin experience in part due to the physical appearance of older staff, their body shape or perceived shortcomings in service. I'll grant a skeptical benefit of the doubt on the service, but the other two are unacceptable. FA's of all shapes and ages are capable of making a premium cabin flight experience amazing.

Of course all crew must be safe. That's why pilots get medical certificates and the physician's have a duty to be certifying safe pilots. You can have a 40 year old pilot with physical impairments preventing them from doing a safe job and a 70 year old pilot who doesn't.

I play high level tennis and win far more matches than I lose in leagues and tournaments. My record against 2X's is stellar. But I have some losses to guys in their 70's. Their hands, their brains, their reflexes: amazing! There's an 85 year old man in my hometown (John Powless) who uses his amazing reflexes to win senior grand slam tennis titles. He could outplay most players under 50.

The discussion should be about capabilities and safety. An older pilot can be just as capable and safe and brings more good experience to the table. We can bring all kinds of accidents proving one or the other, the truth is the accidents are randoms. Since this is a DL/PMNW forum, the NW CRJ that crashed had 31 and 23 year old pilots. The DL5191 CRJ crash had 35 and 44 year old pilots. But the truth is that it's random and they wouldn't have raised the age if there was a wealth of evidence to support 60-65 year old pilots not flying.

I do certainly see why I stop participating in this board at times. My word.

obscure2k

Thanks for that reality check. I think this is such a great post. ^

hockeyinsider

Yes, but sex sells.

Bootman4U

I have this funny notion that those FA's "up front" are probably wishing there were some mandatory retirement FROM FLYING age for people who have decided that if you are not "young and slender" as the complainers obviously must be there is some "problem."

miraclebear2003

I agree 100%, but airline seats?


Also, as another post says, to take away "seniority" rights could push towards unionization.

hockeyinsider

Delta could easily keep seniority but also factor in job performance ratings for marquee routes. Some of the best flight attendants are the 25-year-old ladies flying to Peoria. They should be on the 13-hour flights to/from Asia.

Singapore's airport does this, kind of. They have a great customer rating system for janitors. Each janitor competes against each other through the real time ratings system. This could easily be adapted to factor in customer survey ratings.

SeaHawg

One would think an adaptation of this could be possible. I hate to come off as ageist, but people DO have a shelf life, and while some FAs age like a fine wine, others age like milk, and giving them premium routes will eventually drive myself and many of my younger cohorts away. When my wife looks at me and is in shock about the average crew age on many of our international flights, I know it's not just a few of us curmudgeonly people on FT who have taken notice.

hfly

The pilot thing is a canard (no pun intended), Pilots almost EVERYWHERE but the US had a 65 retirement age, and had no greater incidence of accidents or anything else. Experience is the key, not reflexes (we are taking about passenger aircraft, not fighter jets in combat here). Considering the fact that they get rigorous physicals every six months this is a non issue.

Regarding flight attendants, having been the most frequent flier for decades on what was for a long time Delta's longest distance route, not to mention a very frequent flier for decades on Asian and ME3 carriers, I think that I can talk about what is right or not about this.

Regarding seniority and bids, most carriers union or not, foreign or domestic have some sort of seniority system. The more senior you are, the more input that you have as to where you fly. Plain and simple.

Yes ME3 and Asian carriers all have some sort of age cut off in some way shape or form, 40, 45, 50, often having to do with what position you attain (i.e. as mentioned above, if you don't make it to Purser or whatever by 40, you're out). What many people do NOT realize is that FA's on many of these same carriers are by far better off financially their first 10 years than they are on US carriers!!! For example, a junior FA at an American carrier might only make $28k a year, work 22 days and take home about $20k when all is said and done. A junior FA at a ME3 (or SQ or CX for that matter) not only will often start with a similar salary, but in the case of the ME3, have their housing expenses, utilities and health care taken care of, fly no more than 14 days a month.........oh yeah and NO INCOME TAXES whatsoever. Furthermore, because of where most of these FA's are from, you are often getting a higher calibre of education (the average EK FA that I have encountered speaks at least three languages, often has a higher degree, etc).

When it comes to the Delta "Momma's" as they often called themselves, they are often awesome and EXTREMELY knowledgeable. In contrast to what was posted above, I tend to find that they can mix almost ANY cocktail, while many of the younger ones are phased by anything beyond simple mixers (G&T, R&C, etc).

I do tend to find on the Asian carriers that while they may look good and smile and pour politely, they are often (especially SQ) brain dead, robotic and cannot deal with anything whatsoever out of the ordinary.

My biggest issue, irrespective of age is weight and physical ability. I do not think that FA's that cannot fit walking down the aisle unless walking at an angle (or that literally bash into the shoulders of every single person) should be flying. I think that they are a risk, and this was highlighted when DL/NW merged by the NWA FA's union complaining that certain uniforms were not available in sizes greater than 22, or that FA's should have been able to wear orthopedic shoes regularly to work! I would dare say that many of the Momma's, will tell you with pride that even though it is no longer regulation, that they still would qualify under the weight and strength parameters that they used to have to comply with. Many of the younger ones?? I don't think so.

Lastly. Unless a person is somewhat disabled, UM, or extremely short, it is NOT the FA's job to place things in the overhead. Especially as the average person asking for such help is none of what I just listed but generally normal height women, who have packed 60 lbs in their carry-on and cannot lift it. If you cannot lift your bag, because it is too heavy, you should not be bringing that much crap into the cabin plain and simple.

apodo77

No need to be overly dramatic.

hockeyinsider

That's the problem with airline uniforms. Delta's wrap red dress is gorgeous. The problem is very few of its flight attendants on marquee routes can actually wear it because it wouldn't fit them.

northwesterner

I've never flown long haul international with Delta so I haven't flown with the most senior of the senior FAs (though I've seen them all walking down the concourse to the LAX-SYD flight, and yeah, average age of 70 might be a bit generous).

But I've run into many senior FAs ... in their late 50s and 60s, flying domestic.

SLC has lots of senior FAs, you'll find them on just about everything flying through that hub, including something as short as PHX-SLC (which is often a ATL-PHX-SLC rotation to end the trip). They're very good.

Other times, you'll find a single, very senior FA working one short domestic rotation as part of their pairing. Their international trips that month didn't add up to the minimum required time, so they need one short domestic trip to top up their hours.

This happens around the holidays, too. I had a very senior FA working as the purser on an LAX-SEA flight on Thanksgiving morning. She announced that her LAX based crew would be making one round trip to Seattle and would be home in time for Thanksgiving dinner. The rest of the crew was younger, but she was easily north of 65 and very traditional. When the safety video wouldn't play, the other FAs were grumbling as they all switched positions because the purser insisted on making the announcement for the demonstration, which is done from the rear FA position.

You'll also find senior FAs flying domestic trips from the "virtual" FA bases. I had a MIA/FLL based crew on an MCO-ATL flight. They were all in their late 50s, early 60s, and I suspect were working a MIA/FLL-ATL-MCO-ATL-MIA/FLL day trip.

Personally I find the experienced but not super senior FAs to be amongst Delta's best. These are the FAs that have enough seniority to hold good domestic trips, often, but not always, working transcon segments. They've been around 20-30 years, and are in their late 40s and early 50s. They just have that extra experience to know how to set the right tone but aren't burned out and jaded.

bergamini

It wasn't dramatic. It was an appropriate response to some of the most shallow and vapid comments I've ever seen on here. I have no idea what the average FT user age is, but I'm 45 and I'm guessing that makes me old based on these comments. Or it's a bunch of old men who are bummed they aren't looking at young women in long haul J or F.