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Alitalia Collapse - Implications?

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Old May 9, 2017, 8:05 am
  #91  
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Yeah just because it is 'high' season doesn't mean they are making a profit... its more likely they are just losing money at a slower rate in the peak summer months.
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Old May 9, 2017, 8:09 am
  #92  
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Originally Posted by rylan
Yeah just because it is 'high' season doesn't mean they are making a profit... its more likely they are just losing money at a slower rate in the peak summer months.
I saw an online news article somewhere (probably a link from one of the AZ bankruptcy threads on FT) saying that AZ has lost two billion Euro since 2009, but only 199 million Euro (approximately 10% of the first number) in 2015, the latest year for which the information is available. If this is correct, AZ is improving: they've recently been losing less money per year than the previous average, although of course they're still losing significant amounts of money.

IMO the bigger high season argument is that Italy doesn't want to risk losing some tourism business which is important to the country's economy.
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Old Jun 12, 2017, 4:18 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by arkangel
Essentially the same here. Bought two J tickets from DL for July travel on AZ, JFK-FCO-PMO. My concern, if AZ goes belly up by then, is not so much with the TATL segment, but rather with FCO-PMO. Any ideas what DL might do to get us to PMO, since AZ is the only ST member that flies there?
I have a similar question: if I plate an Alitalia flight on Delta, will Delta be on the hook to get me to my destination (within reason)?
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Old Jun 12, 2017, 4:55 pm
  #94  
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Yes, ticketing carrier is responsible for getting you rebooked. I think its a pretty safe bet that if you booked through DL they will be more than accommodating when AZ starts canceling routes or closes up shop.
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Old Jun 12, 2017, 8:25 pm
  #95  
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Originally Posted by BOSTravels
I have a similar question: if I plate an Alitalia flight on Delta, will Delta be on the hook to get me to my destination (within reason)?
No. All they have to do is issue a refund. By putting it on DL stock, it protects you from losing your money if they go bankrupt. In your case DL would be no different from a TA. Handling rebooking per the terms of the contracted airline. Your contract would be with AZ.

Now if you book the AZ flight as a DL codeshare then DL will be able to assist in rebooking onto another flight as DL policies would apply and your contract would be with DL, not AZ.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:51 am
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Better to rebook your Skymiles AZ award or regular tickets ASAP. Alitalia just filed for bankruptcy protection in NYC.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 11:03 am
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You recognize that United Airlines spent more than three years in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, right?
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 11:16 am
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
You recognize that United Airlines spent more than three years in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, right?
Why would JFK or any other US airport make gates available if AZ doesn't pay?

The operator of New York JFK airport's Terminal 1 had notified Alitalia that its lease and contract would be ended on 13 June if it did not pay its bills, says the airline. Its US telecommunications provider meanwhile gave notice that its telephone and internet services would be terminated on 20 June.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ection-438193/
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by BOSTravels
Better to rebook your Skymiles AZ award or regular tickets ASAP. Alitalia just filed for bankruptcy protection in NYC.
You've got this exactly backwards. Filing for bankruptcy triggers an "automatic stay" of other actions, lawsuits, etc. So it stops JFK from pulling the gates or the internet providers from cancelling contracts, etc.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerwma
You've got this exactly backwards. Filing for bankruptcy triggers an "automatic stay" of other actions, lawsuits, etc. So it stops JFK from pulling the gates or the internet providers from cancelling contracts, etc.
But wouldn't that mean that in effect, Alitalia gets "free lunches" from JFK? Meaning, JFK must provide gates and catering but does not get paid.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 1:43 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerwma
You've got this exactly backwards. Filing for bankruptcy triggers an "automatic stay" of other actions, lawsuits, etc. So it stops JFK from pulling the gates or the internet providers from cancelling contracts, etc.
According to the WSJ, there's a temporary restraining order until the hearing is held on June 26th.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-...u-s-1497365702
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 7:00 pm
  #102  
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Originally Posted by BOSTravels
But wouldn't that mean that in effect, Alitalia gets "free lunches" from JFK? Meaning, JFK must provide gates and catering but does not get paid.
The bills still continue to ring up. If AZ survive through bankruptcy, then the courts decide what/how much gets paid. Its designed to stop the company from going put of business and then no one gets paid anything.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 7:19 pm
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Originally Posted by BOSTravels
But wouldn't that mean that in effect, Alitalia gets "free lunches" from JFK? Meaning, JFK must provide gates and catering but does not get paid.
No. It allows AZ to purchase new goods/services without having to pay old debt first.

I have a codeshare out of FCO in september, so I'm not too worried. I trust DL will bring me back to the US anyway, even at the cost of having to spend a night in Paris.

Instead, I spun the wheel and got a intra-european r/t directly from AZ in november. It is less than $100, so I figured another couple of thousand MQM and best route/time was worth the risk.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 8:51 pm
  #104  
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Originally Posted by thesaints
No. It allows AZ to purchase new goods/services without having to pay old debt first.
Would you sell AZ more goodies if they haven't paid for the previous ones?
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 9:55 pm
  #105  
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The law requires it. The point being that the business being able to survive is dependent on still getting what it needs to operate. Thus for everyones sake, its better to force the reluctant merchants, then to allow thrm to stop. Which would ensure company doesnt make it out of bankruptcy and causing everyone to lose money.
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