Upset Woman Gets Kicked off Delta Plane
Apr 20, 2017, 10:41 am
#46
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It would cost more, including total GA time, but I can see a rationale for an IDBed passenger to be entitled to a seat on the next flight, even if it means that another passenger gets an IDB too. Two people experiencing minor inconvenience can be better than one with major inconvenience in cases where they haven't volunteered.
For VDBs, compensation in DL$ or whatever, usually depends on the length of the delay, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for GAs to be able to negotiate a tradeoff with smaller compensation for smaller delays and give the passenger a choice. This could help the GA to get volunteers or to get the volunteer who values the earlier rebooking onto it while giving a bit more to the person willing to take the much later flight. Unfortunately, this would all need to be done before the GA can know what the VDB/IDB on the next flight will cost, so the scheme is unlikely to fly.
For VDBs, compensation in DL$ or whatever, usually depends on the length of the delay, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for GAs to be able to negotiate a tradeoff with smaller compensation for smaller delays and give the passenger a choice. This could help the GA to get volunteers or to get the volunteer who values the earlier rebooking onto it while giving a bit more to the person willing to take the much later flight. Unfortunately, this would all need to be done before the GA can know what the VDB/IDB on the next flight will cost, so the scheme is unlikely to fly.
Obviously. That's why I said it would be humorous. I was not suggesting that it actually be done. It would be a nightmare for everyone not watching on Youtube or FB live.
Apr 20, 2017, 10:43 am
#47
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I'm disturbed that people are suggesting that airlines should just cancel a flight and immediately reinstate it for most of the passengers to operate under a new flight number as a way to avoid doing VDBs/IDBs. It sounds like fraud to me, even if technically this might not fall into the legal definition of fraud. Anytime the cost of finding volunteers becomes too great, just cancel and reinstate as a way to avoid paying DOT mandated compensation?
It is a sad commentary on where we are in the year 2017.
Another possibility, at a station such as ATL where spare planes may be available, is to use another aircraft (this happened to me a couple of years ago on an ATL-SMF trip, where I had scored the last upgrade seat on an ex-Song 757, only for that plane to go MX, and I ended up in an exit row on a 24 F seat 757). They kept the same flight number, but we moved down 4-5 gates to the new aircraft. They could delete the unruly passenger's BP from the system, or do something to keep her from boarding. Then the police will have an easier time with her, particularly after everyone else has boarded.
Apr 20, 2017, 10:52 am
#48
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AFAIK if the airline somehow deletes the boarding pass, DOT would still consider it an IDB if all other conditions have been met. Otherwise an airline could solve all overbooking problems bu just cancelling boarding passes without compensation.
Apr 20, 2017, 10:57 am
#49
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that piece of work should have been offloaded right away. I don't understand why the LEO was stalling. He should have only asked once and if she didn't comply yank her out.
So am I reading this correctly when the flight attendant comes on the mic and asks everyone to deplane it's really to deal with one woman in question?
So am I reading this correctly when the flight attendant comes on the mic and asks everyone to deplane it's really to deal with one woman in question?
Apr 20, 2017, 11:00 am
#50
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The cancel the flight and then reinstate it strategy has been suggested not just to deal with violent etc. passengers who really do need to be removed (in which case, why cancel and reinstate versus just having passengers leave the aircraft?) but also as a solution for what to do when the GA needs seats after everyone has boarded (so that technically IDBs cannot be done at least according to the UA CoC and possibly also according to the DOT definition of IDBs) and even as a way to avoid paying IDB compensation in these cases (although it the DOT technicality says it's not an IDB if the passenger has already boarded, then technically IDB compensation isn't required either).
We may be even getting to a point where they have to take all about-to-be-IDBed passengers into a special area with armed officers present. Sad state of the world, the fits people throw when they don't get what they want.
Apr 20, 2017, 11:01 am
#51
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I don't think I would like doing musical chairs with being told to deplane with all carry on items after getting settled on the aircraft, only to hang around the gate and board again for no real reason.
Apr 20, 2017, 11:13 am
#52
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Unfortunately it seems that may be what they may wind up moving towards, in order to prevent PR nightmares, though.
Apr 20, 2017, 11:53 am
#53
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Apr 20, 2017, 11:54 am
#54
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If I was behind those two I would have said "do you mind making your decision instead of holding up the line??".
Apr 20, 2017, 12:13 pm
#55
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I think it's important to correct this. A civil dispute occurs when a business refuses to fulfill a contract (whether they can is a question of the contract and applicable legal interpretations). Police cannot enforce a civil dispute. It escalates to a criminal matter when a person knowingly and intentionally refuses to deplane, as at some point (when a court can reasonably hold that the person was acting in knowledge that they no longer had permission to be there) the pax is committing the offence of trespass. Diff states will have diff definitions, but it's an offence in some form in all common law states.
To put it in another way: the pax can't just sit there and refuse to deplane in a standoff for 1 hour or 12 hours or 3 weeks. The fact they had a ticket and the ticket was not honored does not give them license to be on the plane indefinitely. The question is how long before police should intervene. And the answer isn't complex: the police are justified to intervene once the pax can be reasonably expected to know the owner/operator has revoked their permission to be there.
What constitutes reasonable force and what passes for acceptable customer service are separate questions. But we ought not to muddy the waters by suggesting police ought not to remove a pax after they are told to deplane and refuse to comply (at which point they are trespassing).
To put it in another way: the pax can't just sit there and refuse to deplane in a standoff for 1 hour or 12 hours or 3 weeks. The fact they had a ticket and the ticket was not honored does not give them license to be on the plane indefinitely. The question is how long before police should intervene. And the answer isn't complex: the police are justified to intervene once the pax can be reasonably expected to know the owner/operator has revoked their permission to be there.
What constitutes reasonable force and what passes for acceptable customer service are separate questions. But we ought not to muddy the waters by suggesting police ought not to remove a pax after they are told to deplane and refuse to comply (at which point they are trespassing).
And based on what I could find Chicago Aviation Security Officers actually do have power of arrest. (i.e. the UA incident fits exactly as is described above).
Apr 20, 2017, 12:24 pm
#56
Join Date: Mar 2008
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So the people on this plane first need to STOP egging her on. They "think its funny", but if one of them got injured trying to arrest her etc they would be suing left and right. In situations like this everybody else needs to SHUT UP!!!
I dont understand why she is pissed? Was the plane delayed leaving?
She made LOTS of threats which this video alone should get her charged with "making terrorist threats"
I dont understand why she is pissed? Was the plane delayed leaving?
She made LOTS of threats which this video alone should get her charged with "making terrorist threats"
what was the issue that the passenger was having? I kinda got the impression that they'd been on the plane for quite some time (or it was delayed?)?
With my luck, I'd be the guy sitting next to her. LOL!
I was on an AA flight (I'll have to look up the flight #) last Dec. from ALB to CLT. When we landed, the police entered and removed the guy from the row behind me. I overheard the FA mention that apparently he'd locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn't respond to them and eventually came out without his shirt on or something. However, he was escorted off peaceably (no raised voices/etc). The police weren't sure if there was a language barrier issue.
Apr 20, 2017, 1:38 pm
#57
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I'm curious too:
what was the issue that the passenger was having? I kinda got the impression that they'd been on the plane for quite some time (or it was delayed?)?
With my luck, I'd be the guy sitting next to her. LOL!
I was on an AA flight (I'll have to look up the flight #) last Dec. from ALB to CLT. When we landed, the police entered and removed the guy from the row behind me. I overheard the FA mention that apparently he'd locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn't respond to them and eventually came out without his shirt on or something. However, he was escorted off peaceably (no raised voices/etc). The police weren't sure if there was a language barrier issue.
what was the issue that the passenger was having? I kinda got the impression that they'd been on the plane for quite some time (or it was delayed?)?
With my luck, I'd be the guy sitting next to her. LOL!
I was on an AA flight (I'll have to look up the flight #) last Dec. from ALB to CLT. When we landed, the police entered and removed the guy from the row behind me. I overheard the FA mention that apparently he'd locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn't respond to them and eventually came out without his shirt on or something. However, he was escorted off peaceably (no raised voices/etc). The police weren't sure if there was a language barrier issue.
Pilot turns the plane around, back to the gate, where 1B was escorted off the plane.
My only complaint about how the matter was handled was that the fellow was so obviously stoned and/or drunk that he should never have been allowed on the plane in the first place.
Apr 20, 2017, 2:00 pm
#58
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If a crew member/agent tells you to get off, you can be a pompous arse like Mr. Dao and impress yourself with how DYKWIA you are. But when the cops tell you to get off, you're getting off. How much you get hurt in the process is inversely proportional to your intelligence level.
*Note: I was pretty good at catching drunk peeps before they boarded, but it's not always easy. Something about airplanes just makes people "act the fool".