UAPremierExec

And Costco on the other end

Wouldn't wanna end up in either, to be honest. Sure was fun watching DC-10s and L-1011s take off from OGG, that's for sure!

Longboater

Its a problem but the runway is getting an extension and will have a 7355' runway upon completion in November 2016. This will improve AA's future A321 performance on LIH-LAX but still will not be feasible for the 739 unless its weight restricted. HAL's A321NEOs won't have issues on flights to the West Coast although June-October flying could be problematic due to summer temperatures and less tail winds. Still unknown what will happen to OGG's 6995' runway as it'll be the shortest among Hawai'i airports with service to the mainland. Plenty of local opposition to extending the runway. Pretty big contrast to KOA as the Big Island has strongly desired a flight to Tokyo after JAL left in 2010.

SJC ORD LDR

How much runway is needed to the 738 at MTOW?

Aloha1

OGG extension?? That was shot down a couple years ago by the ecofreaks. Only repaving is going on right now. Bunch of NIMBY idiots with no idea of science convinced the voters that runway expansion would somehow bring in "invasive" species. Total joke.

mother-

According to Wikipedia 7874' which is 2000' less than a 739...

The 752 only needs 6500'.

Longboater

Unless these idiot ecofreak NIMBYs wake up, they're going to lose out economically in the long run as Boeing and Airbus aren't designing short runway performance planes anymore. In the long term, the Kona side of the Big Island has a great tourist future not just from the West Coast, but I bet they'll get a Tokyo flight eventually. Best hope for OGG is HAL moves some A332s over there once all of the A321NEOs are delivered and 767s are retired.

SJC ORD LDR

Is it up to the airport to conform to these junky, underpowered planes or do the airlines need to come up with something that isn't junky and underpowered?

RaflW

A couple of seriously close calls - landing with mere minutes of reserve fuel, might get someone's attention. Otherwise, if the a/c consistently has the legs (and it better, there are no alternates for landing for a loooooong time), the 739 is the beancounters dream.

I guess if I'm ever to see HI, I'll have to take the seasonal MSP nonstop. DL can't 739 that flight!

Yellowjj

There's no such thing as "under-powered"....that's the whole point of designing and going through certification. If the engine can't produce sufficient lift in the specified conditions, the plane would never make it off the ground. Case in .

The only thing hampering the 900 is the short landing gear. Thus a shallower take-off is needed to avoid a tail-strike; which makes it seem like the plane doesn't want to leave the ground. If anybody thinks a 737 is using full thrust 99% of the time, there not playing with a full deck of cards. Pretty sure the dispatchers have run the performance figures and were happy with what they found. You can bet those 28K engines will be doing some max power takeoffs in LIH/KOA/OGG.

RaflW

Good point, Yellowjj. I am not a 739 fan for cabin comfort reasons (I suspect I won't love the new 757 layout either but haven't been in one yet), but the plane is pretty efficient. What makes the 757 a fun ride and a great short field/hot & high plane also makes it use more fuel throughout the trip.

mother-

Of course there is such a thing as underpowered for a given use. And for the 739er short runway / hot and humid air / long distance operations are one of those uses.

I've got to imagine (someone in the industry feel free to correct me) that the runway requirements at max takeoff weight are using full commercial power. Once again in this thread I find myself not sure it matters why the 739er is bad for this use case, but...

The 900 and 900er are the same length, height above the runway, and power. The only difference is the MTOW, and the 900 takes off more than 500' sooner than the ER. I'm sure that the difference between the 800 and 900 are in part due to increased length (shallower takeoff) and in part due to the difference in thrust/weight ratio. Though shouldn't they redesign the wing/flaps to provide the needed lift at shallower takeoff angles?

BTW In looking for info on this I stumbled upon "737 Airplane Characteristics for Airport Planning". The relevant stuff is around pg 150.

rylan

The goal with the 739 was not to do a full redesign... by just stretching the fuselage and only making minor modifications to the nose, I'm sure it greatly reduced the expense, overhead, took advantage of the economies of scale with using the same wing and engine, and reduced time to market.

They took what they had and could do relatively quickly to fill a gap.

Yellowjj

There's no such thing as underpowered otherwise it wouldn't be certified. Your personal dislike of the sardine configuration Delta slammed into the aircraft has nothing to do with the ability for the aircraft to get off the ground.
I have never heard anyone refer to a double stretch aircraft as a short field performer. It's a given that on hot days, unless you have adequate length runways, your range will decrease.

Aircraft recommended de-rated takeoff thrust are between 85-92%. Otherwise you wear the engine out much faster. Full power takeoffs are performed every so often.

Even though there aren't any more 900's being made, the other differences are the additional overwing exits and rear pressure bulkhead which increases capacity beyond the 200 persons the 900 is limited too. As such you now have a much heavier, but capable aircraft. Redesigning the wing and or flaps drives up costs/spare parts and would mean they would need to re-certify the plane as a sub-type. See the 707-320 and 320B/C. Besides the wing is not the problem, its still quite efficient. The 900 simply sits low too the ground. No matter if you slap the 747 wing on it, there's not enough tail clearance for anything but a shallow rotation.

udontknowme

The invasive species are TOURISTS. Many in Maui want less of them, failing to realize that their "paradise" wouldn't be much of one without an economy.

Aloha1

Roger that, but most of those in that camp are either waiting for the Hawaiian Monarchy to be restored or recently came to Maui from Looneyville, AKA, California. The Born and Raised understand where the jobs and money come from.