Delta plans to launch LAX-PVG
Jan 13, 2015, 8:21 pm
#16
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IMHO, no, DL won't do it. If SQ couldn't make NYC-SIN or LAX-SIN non-stops work with its hub and its reputation in premium cabins, DL couldn't get the yield premiums vs. all the one-stop routes & carriers.
Jan 13, 2015, 8:34 pm
#17
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Did TG ever attempt to run nonstops between BKK and the USA?
Jan 13, 2015, 8:43 pm
#18
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TG had JFK-BKK before ending in 2008 due to the huge spike in oil prices. They ended LAX-BKK also due to continued high fuel prices. The A340-500 is a true gas guzzling aircraft. This is also why SQ dumped theirs. The Worldliner is much more efficient of an aircraft but the economics of the 77W and high fuel prices killed it other than a niche aircraft. Delta would have been better off ordering the 77W instead of the Worldliner if it weren't for wanting to start ATL-JNB nonstop as the Worldliner was the only airplane capable of doing it at a profit.
Jan 13, 2015, 8:47 pm
#19
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Both. If A US/China openskies was announced tomorrow Delta/MU/CZ might beat the time of DL/AM in asking for a JV.
no. To long. To thin and to low yielding.
NRT-BKK/SIN/MNL/GUM/SPN/ROR will stay. If they don't Delta will exit the marketplace.
Wouldn't be so sure. with 3 daily 777 flights now its enough flying for a pilot base. With (good) chances of more 777 routes coming for LAX I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a pilot base show up.
yes. IIRC same deal as SQ. No-Y 345s to LAX and JFK.
like SQ was a money pit flown just for pride.
Down the road when the 242 MTOW A330s and A350s arrive on the property, the 777-200LRs won't be needed for most of its present routes save ATL-DXB and ATL-JNB. Any chance Delta could attempt LAX-BKK and/or LAX-SIN with the Worldliner? It would be much more efficient than the A340-500s and Delta would have a monopoly on nonstop flights to Southeast Asia from North America. Or are the yields too poor and fuel prices still too high?
NRT-BKK/SIN/MNL/GUM/SPN/ROR will stay. If they don't Delta will exit the marketplace.
Fuel prices are probably fine RIGHT NOW. Who knows what they will be in a year or so. I suspect yields would still suck, though.
As for LAX-PVG; I do hope it doesn't mean the end of NRT-PVG, mostly for TWOV reasons as stated above, although the writing is definitely on the wall. Smart use of a 777 also, since it can be done by the inbound SYD plane and require just one additional frame, and also probably means LAX-NRT will get the new A333s.
As for LAX-PVG; I do hope it doesn't mean the end of NRT-PVG, mostly for TWOV reasons as stated above, although the writing is definitely on the wall. Smart use of a 777 also, since it can be done by the inbound SYD plane and require just one additional frame, and also probably means LAX-NRT will get the new A333s.
yes. IIRC same deal as SQ. No-Y 345s to LAX and JFK.
like SQ was a money pit flown just for pride.
Jan 13, 2015, 9:49 pm
#20
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While not discounting the possibility of a KE JV, Delta has already said it wants a JV with the Chinese carriers.
This is from October 2013:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...n-2014-392010/
This is from October 2013:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...n-2014-392010/
An immunised joint venture with an Asian carrier may be in Delta’s cards for the future.
“In a decade, it would be nice to replicate the joint venture structures we have in Europe and move them to China,” says Richard Anderson, chairman and chief executive of Delta. He says that this is needed in order to “sustain the free cash flows and growth of the enterprise over the long term”.
China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines are both partners of Delta and fellow members of the SkyTeam alliance. Anderson says that the carrier transfers about 20 to 40 passengers per day to the carriers over Beijing and Shanghai.
“In a decade, it would be nice to replicate the joint venture structures we have in Europe and move them to China,” says Richard Anderson, chairman and chief executive of Delta. He says that this is needed in order to “sustain the free cash flows and growth of the enterprise over the long term”.
China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines are both partners of Delta and fellow members of the SkyTeam alliance. Anderson says that the carrier transfers about 20 to 40 passengers per day to the carriers over Beijing and Shanghai.
Jan 13, 2015, 9:55 pm
#21
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Only 20-40 passengers per day connecting onward from PEK and PVG seems low until one recalls the logistics of connecting in these airports, including usually needing to take checked luggage to check in counters.
Jan 13, 2015, 10:50 pm
#22
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If a real JV is to succeed, DL should relocate to T1 where MU is in PVG for starters... Also AA and CX/KA have an arrangement with PVG where pax don't need to re-clear immigration and luggage and transit straight through... so DL could definitely make it work.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:18 pm
#23
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Then DL would lose its current contract lounge arrangement, which is reasonably acceptable. The lounges operated by Chinese carriers are generally pretty bad, although my experience is more with CZ than MU.
Jan 14, 2015, 12:52 am
#24
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Actually, I think they will deploy the 777-200LR from SEA-MNL or SIN/BKK nonstop, but they don't have enough range to reaching into SIN/BKK. Due to weight restrictions.
Jan 14, 2015, 2:02 am
#25
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To add onto that, the outbound LAX-PVG probably will turn off NRT-LAX inbound. The LAX-PVG-LAX seems to be sandwiched right in between that inbound and Sydney which means you only need one additional unit of 777LR to fly that instead of 2 since that plane looks like it would have otherwise sat in LAX all day. The turn also doesn't require any more gate space since it just turns off flights that are already utilizing that gate's resources anyway. It's really such an ideal way to add a flight without too many extra resources.
Last edited by gustoj820; Jan 14, 2015 at 2:16 am
Jan 14, 2015, 7:43 am
#26
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Why wouldn't DL choose to fly LAX-PVG rather than JFK-PVG? Both airports have the same Chinese airline partners. The 77L can be used on both routes. all things being equal (I know they aren't), one would think that there would be more O&D demand from JFK.
Jan 14, 2015, 7:55 am
#27
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While it's hard to say for sure, I suspect the answer is two-fold. First, and most importantly, fuel. It will be much less expensive to fly from LAX. Second, flows. Almost anyone who is being connected over JFK to PVG would be back hauling, while connections over LAX are more rational.
Jan 14, 2015, 8:01 am
#28
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The use of aircraft on the route and to a lesser extent, DTW-PVG is currently using a 747. LAX-NRT was very likely headed to a 242 MTOW A333 with the retirement of the three 747s. With the extra 77L around, Delta thought it best to retaliate against American wanting to take LAX-HND and force Delta off the route. American will stay will LAX-PVG as they intend LAX to become their Pacific hub and they had 14 787-8s expected to be delivered this year.
Jan 14, 2015, 8:15 am
#29
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http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GRR-JFK...g&MS=wls&DU=mi
Jan 14, 2015, 6:46 pm
#30
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I believe LAX-PVG is the largest US-China market, although additional JFK-Asia flights will probably happen once A359s come online.