Unamerican or what?
Apr 16, 2014, 11:24 am
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 7,982
Not really. It is really supplier/lender support as it provides a legal framework for extinguishing debts and reorganizing in cases where doing so provides greater value to creditors than liquidation. It doesn't entail state subsidies or support.
There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding on this point among European comentators and I'm unclear as to why.
There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding on this point among European comentators and I'm unclear as to why.
Apr 16, 2014, 11:32 am
#32
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K / CO PLT
Posts: 539
I think Delta needs to be careful here. They fly a lot of presumably lucrative 5th freedom routes inherited from NW in Asia and they have set up several of their own in Africa as well. It'd be priceless to see their comeback if JL and NH filed suit in Japan challenging their 5th freedom routes out of NRT. While this is an Italian court ruling on the issue, there are certainly a number of other premium carrier 5th freedom routes in/out of the USA that could easily come under fire in EU or US courts if such a prescient is set. I do hope that EK escalates and fights this as far as possible.
Apr 16, 2014, 1:09 pm
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Never said anything of the sort. I was clarifying a question of fact, not taking a position on which side is "best". That Europeans often misstate the facts, as was done here, is a mystery to me.
Apr 16, 2014, 1:41 pm
#36
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
I'll be glad to follow up with the appropriate authorities.
Apr 16, 2014, 1:48 pm
#38
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
AMS-BOM flight is covered under the bilateral agreements negotiated between USA/India and KLM/India along with the JV I believe.
Apr 16, 2014, 9:16 pm
#39
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 797
Please show me where any US carrier is abusing the Fifth Freedom rights.
Apr 16, 2014, 9:22 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
EK is not subsidised, nor does it support airlines being given subsidies
Anyhow, I am disappointed with this court ruling given EK when given 5th freedom rights has been able to lower fares (i.e. I have seen BKK on fanfare exHKG, I have also seen cheaper BUESAO fares.)
Anyhow, I am disappointed with this court ruling given EK when given 5th freedom rights has been able to lower fares (i.e. I have seen BKK on fanfare exHKG, I have also seen cheaper BUESAO fares.)
Apr 17, 2014, 1:14 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: UA, DL, LH, Marriott, Amex
Posts: 554
Please show me where Emirates is abusing it. I didn't say any airlines were, just that they all take advantage of this opportunity regulations allow, and that it is critical for Delta to be against it, when they themselves partake in it.
Apr 17, 2014, 3:30 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SNA
Programs: UA 1K, HH LTD
Posts: 1,782
Political interference is always bad for the free market. Let the customer make the decision! I would gladly fly Emirates J instead of Delta J any day of the week.
And Italian court decisions are usually overturned once the opposing party pays a higher bribe than the initial winner.
And Italian court decisions are usually overturned once the opposing party pays a higher bribe than the initial winner.
Apr 17, 2014, 9:31 am
#43
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: AA Lifetime PLT , BA Silver , BD RIP , HH Gold, SPG / Marriott PLT , EF Subscriber
Posts: 6,702
Most of the so called Slave Labor in UAE earn 3 times the wage they would earn in their own country. They are not forcibly made to work in the Oil Rich Countries
If USA feels that the Oil Rich Airlines are subsidized then just cancel the 300+ Boeings that are are presently on order from these carriers.
Of course Boeing has Never been Subsidized
If USA feels that the Oil Rich Airlines are subsidized then just cancel the 300+ Boeings that are are presently on order from these carriers.
Of course Boeing has Never been Subsidized
Apr 17, 2014, 6:18 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: You can find me in the A.
Programs: Delta Platinum, Marriott Platinum, SkyTeam Elite Plus
Posts: 106
Except they are. Their passports are confiscated and they are, for all practical purposes, indentured labor.
Apr 17, 2014, 6:50 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Naples Florida and San Diego, California
Programs: Delta Diamond, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 73
Delta believes the middle east carriers pose a huge competitive threat…perhaps rightly so.
Over the holidays I had a chat with a high level Qantas executive. Qantas recently did a JV with Emirates so this person was well placed to have a good look. This is what I was told:
-Emirates is supported by the state. Details were not given.
-Emirates benefits from very low landing/airport fees in Dubai. It makes for a very cheap hub to operate.
-Employees of Emirates living in Dubai do not pay income tax.
-fuel is so cheap for Emirates that they "tanker" fuel on their London flights which I interpret to mean that they take on more fuel than necessary to get to London and, that even with the extra weight, it is economical to haul their own fuel for the return flight.
Some of these advantages are reduced in "fifth freedom" flights but overall the mideast carriers pose a huge competitive threat.
I suspect Delta will continue to fight this but I am not sure they will prevail. It will be interesting to see if Etihad buys 49% of Alitalia. Suddenly Delta would be a quasi partner with the enemy
Over the holidays I had a chat with a high level Qantas executive. Qantas recently did a JV with Emirates so this person was well placed to have a good look. This is what I was told:
-Emirates is supported by the state. Details were not given.
-Emirates benefits from very low landing/airport fees in Dubai. It makes for a very cheap hub to operate.
-Employees of Emirates living in Dubai do not pay income tax.
-fuel is so cheap for Emirates that they "tanker" fuel on their London flights which I interpret to mean that they take on more fuel than necessary to get to London and, that even with the extra weight, it is economical to haul their own fuel for the return flight.
Some of these advantages are reduced in "fifth freedom" flights but overall the mideast carriers pose a huge competitive threat.
I suspect Delta will continue to fight this but I am not sure they will prevail. It will be interesting to see if Etihad buys 49% of Alitalia. Suddenly Delta would be a quasi partner with the enemy